Government Operations Committee on April 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

The motion in both languages went out last week. Hopefully everyone has it in front of them.

I've started a speaking list. I have Mr. Perkins and then Mr. Bachrach.

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know members will be surprised to learn that I support this motion. The reason I support this motion is that we've been discussing this in the industry committee, here, and in the House, where commitments have been made.

Commitments were made by this government beginning with the announcements of these five EV battery plants. There were commitments by the government about how this would be all about creating Canadian jobs. We know of course that, in fact, that is not true, particularly in the construction phase.

Initially when we raised concerns about whether there were guarantees in the contracts that these jobs would have to be Canadian jobs, the government said that of course there were.

I'll preface the rest of my remarks by saying that I've actually read the Stellantis contract and the Volkswagen contract. I haven't yet had a chance to read the Honda ones, and I'm looking forward to reading those once the government makes them public. The government claimed that, as I said, all of these jobs—including in the construction phase, with the exception of a few specialty jobs—would be jobs for Canadians. In fact, that is not the case.

Canada's Building Trades Unions wrote the following letter to the Prime Minister on, I believe, April 10. This is what the executive director wrote to the Prime Minister:

We are writing to request your personal intervention to resolve the ongoing use of international workers in the construction of Stellantis and LG's NextStar EV Battery Plant in Windsor, Ontario.

Over the last several months Canada's Building Trades Unions have diligently worked to secure an agreement to ensure Canadians are employed in the construction and installation phases of this project, through several months of fruitless meetings with Stellantis and LG.

Our efforts have so far failed due to LG and Stellantis' intransigence.

The executive director said, “Despite our best efforts at negotiating a resolution, without public or media commentary, LG and Stellantis continue to use international workers through subcontractors for work which our members are ready and able to perform—180 local skilled trades workers in Essex, Kent region, millwrights and ironworkers are unemployed and available to perform this work. In fact, Canadian workers are now being replaced by international workers at an increasing pace on work that was previously assigned to Canadian workers.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Perkins, may I interrupt you for a moment?

Seeing that we have an extensive speaking list, I don't think we will get to it by one o'clock.

If it's fine with everyone, as much as I'm sure they'd like to sit around and listen, I'm going to suggest that perhaps we should dismiss our witnesses, with our thanks, as always, for the great report and their feedback and suggestions today.

Mr. Jeglic and Mr. Mersereau, we look forward to seeing you back in the future. Thanks very much.

Mr. Perkins, go ahead, sir.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The executive director of Canada's Building Trades Unions wrote his letter to the Prime Minister on April 10. The last paragraph says, “Fifty additional international workers are expected to arrive and begin work that was previously indicated would be performed by Canadian workers tomorrow.”

The CBTU has also said:

Canadian workers are being sidelined without consequence. This is a slap in the face to Canadian workers and utterly unacceptable from LG and Stellantis, particularly when their shareholders stand to benefit from more than $15 Billion in generous tax incentives from the Government of Canada.

This has never been a case of knowledge transfer or specialized knowledge.

This is a brazen displacement of Canadian workers in favour of international workers, by major international corporations thumbing their noses at both the Government of Canada, taxpayers, and our skilled trades workers.

For our...members in Essex-Kent, the current state of affairs is intolerable.

As such, the Canadian Executive Board has authorized all necessary measures required to remedy the situation. We require your personal intervention with the executives of these corporations.

Tell Stellantis and LG to cease and desist their use of sub-contractors who are employing international workers to displace Canadian workers on tasks which can be performed by local workers.

Instruct your Ministers to halt the flow of new international workers to the EV Battery Plant in Windsor. Require the companies to sign new agreements with labour conditionality on tax incentives. End this intolerable situation for Canadian workers.

Canadian building trades unions are united in our request and we require action.

That's a pretty condemning letter from the head of Canada's Building Trades Unions regarding what's going on in Windsor right now. It shines a light on the concern we've expressed about the validity of claims by the government that there are no foreign replacement workers who aren't specialized. In fact, there are workers being brought into Windsor from both South Korea and Mexico for the construction of this plant who are doing jobs like operating a forklift. Now, there's nothing specialized there, other than the Canadian skills and training needed for operating a forklift. Yet, these Liberals allowed this contract to go ahead.

Initially, when we asked questions in the House of Commons, the government claimed there was only one foreign worker permit. Now there are 72 and Canada's Building Trades Unions say there are another 50 coming in. It exposes the disconnect. I can tell you that it's a disconnect because I can tell you what's not in the contracts. At no point in the Stellantis contract and the VW contract does it say, “You have to hire Canadian workers.” I would challenge the government there. If they think I'm wrong in my reading of it—it's pretty simple language and the VW contract is only 28 pages.... It would have been pretty simple to put in those contracts, “Hire Canadians only”. Those words are not in the contract.

If the government is going to dispute what I'm saying as wrong—government members who haven't read the contracts—and dispute what's actually happening on the ground, they could put their money where their mouth is and release the contracts. Show us the money. Show us the commitment. Is the company breaching the contracts? I expect the government would be yelling bloody hell if it said, “Canadians only in both the construction and full-time equivalents”, but they're not. They're defending the company and saying, “Oh, it's only one or two. Oh, no. It's 10. Oh, it's 12. Oh, now it's only 72.”

Well, what is the final number of allowable foreign replacement workers in this contract? How much are Canadians going to have to pay to employ these foreign replacement workers while 180 people are sitting unemployed in Windsor who are certified to do these jobs and are members of Canada's Building Trades Unions?

I would ask that all members, in all sincerity—and we've been through this a lot with various motions here—if they are sincere and want to defend this, please support this motion that calls for the release of all these contracts.

There is also a contract with Northvolt in Quebec, and that's the third. Now we have the Honda one. Release the information. Prove me wrong. I dare you. Prove me wrong. Release them.

Transparency, the Prime Minister used to say before he was elected in 2015, is the greatest thing that this new “sunny ways” government was going to do. It was a disinfectant, yes. Well, we need some disinfectant now. I wasn't in the House then, but we need some disinfectant now on the government on this, because clearly what's happening on the ground, what the union is saying is happening, is totally different from what the government claims and totally different from what it says is in the contract.

If it was in the contract, then, of course, they would.... If they had job guarantees, they'd be preventing forklift operators and others—which are not specialized skills that are required—from coming from Korea to do that work in Windsor.

What else do we not know that the government has claimed in these contracts that it's been unwilling to share with the public? What else is it hiding? It's not commercial sensitivity, since they're all on the gravy train. It was all, apparently, done on the basis of President Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, which, as we know—because that's public—says that between now and the end of 2029, 100% of the cost of every battery assembled will be subsidized by taxpayers. One hundred per cent is the public number in the IRA, so obviously that must be the number that's in these contracts if they mirror it. Then it's 75%, and then it's 50%, so it's some deal. If you're a foreign business, you're saying, “Yeah, sign me up.”

The Government of Canada, taxpayers, are going to pay 100% of the cost of the assembly of these batteries. The government is bragging that somehow this is some great revelation. Well, I'm not sure that there are any foreign multinational companies that wouldn't come here if what they produced was 100% subsidized by taxpayers, so that they got essentially 100% profit from everything they could do. This includes the Volkswagen case, where the batteries will be assembled and shipped to Tennessee for cars sold in the United States.

I will leave it there, Mr. Chair. I'm sure some other members have something to say. However, I would encourage all of us to ensure that the now $52 billion of Canadian taxpayer money committed to these contracts be made public, because I don't trust the government. What the union and others are saying is happening is not what the government is saying, so let's get some disinfectant and release the contracts.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear! Well done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I take some issue with my colleague Mr. Perkins's use of the phrase “foreign replacement workers”. We saw this during the discussion of the recent legislation, which is going to ban the use of scabs—or “replacement workers”, as the euphemism is. During the entire debate the Conservatives tried to make it about the use of foreign workers at battery and EV plants, which is a totally different topic—an important one nonetheless—but I am worried that the conflation is not an accident and that they're intentionally trying to muddy the waters on two very important issues, one dealing with the use of scabs during strikes and lockouts and the other with the use of foreign workers at these battery plants and electric vehicle factories.

I understand that the industry committee is currently studying this. They have a motion, I believe—

Excuse me?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We're studying C-27. It's a motion we had to make.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We can talk later, Rick.

I understand that INDU is currently studying this matter and that there's a motion at INDU—and I believe Mr. Perkins was there today—to invite the minister to talk about these contracts. It feels to me this is a very reasonable line of enquiry. It seems to me it would be important, before this motion comes forward, that we hear from the minister and ask the minister questions, and that we hear from the Building Trades Unions and the other unions involved and understand specifically what their concerns are.

My impression of their concerns is somewhat different from what Mr. Perkins articulated. I agree that they're concerned about the use of foreign workers. My understanding is not that they want these contracts to be aired publicly, so I think that getting some clarity on that fact will be very helpful. Most of all, I think this is better discussed and this motion will be better placed at INDU, because they're currently embarking on a study—or rather, they're already studying this very topic. That's my understanding.

I'm going to make an amendment that we insert the following words at the beginning of the motion, “That the committee refer the following motion to the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.” That would go right before “In regards”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Before I start....

Actually, I assume you're going to address what's going on in INDU, Mr. Perkins. Go ahead on the amendment, Mr. Perkins.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order. I'm sorry, but what is the speaking order?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're on the amendment now. Mr. Perkins is the only person I see with a hand up.

Is that okay with you, Mr. Bittle?

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I'm just asking. You're the chair. I'm just asking where we are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I won't be long on this point.

No, the industry—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Hold on for two seconds.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, we have your hand up for the previous speaking order. Is this also on the amendment or is that from the previous speaking order, please, sir?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I am happy to speak to both that and the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Okay. I have you down for the amendment, if you want to put your hand down. Thank you, sir.

Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to clarify, INDU is not studying Stellantis. We're in the middle of a very lengthy clause-by-clause discussion on Bill C-27. There was a motion proposed at the end of INDU—they're probably still discussing it now—to have the Minister of Industry appear, but the motion has nothing to do with the contract. They're very different.

The effort on Bill C-27 will probably take us well into the fall, so I don't imagine that there will be another study at industry on this. We had one meeting in camera with officials after we viewed the contract. That's it, and that's not a study. There's not going to be a report either, because it was in camera, just for clarification.

On this, lobbing it off to industry is lobbing it off to a committee that won't get to it until before Christmas. That's not timely when you're spending $52 billion of Canadian money. This committee has the right to look into any spending and spending commitments—government operations is its name, the mighty OGGO, as I'm told—and actual expenditures of the Government of Canada. Some of these expenditures are actual now, particularly the construction ones. The government is already subsidizing half a billion dollars on the construction of the Stellantis plant and investing $778 million dollars of subsidy on the construction of the Volkswagen plant before you even get to the production subsidies. Those are the contracts right now that are in dispute, and the money we're spending is for the construction contracts.

I appreciate not wanting to distract the committee and take time from its important work, but I think that this is the appropriate place to study it, as my friend MP Genuis put forward, because, one, it is a government expenditure, and two, industry can't look at this in the foreseeable future because of the extensive nature of Bill C-27, the privacy and artificial intelligence bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate my colleague Mr. Bachrach 's forward the amendment and looking at sending this to INDU, because INDU has been dealing with this issue for months. We've had spirited debate at the INDU committee on this very issue, but I have some grave concerns with this request, and I'll mention a couple of things just to set the context here.

I had a chance to speak with and I'm in regular contact with the ironworkers and the millwrights, with the people in the building trades in Windsor-Essex. We absolutely recognize and hear their concerns. They're important concerns, and I can tell you that Minister Champagne and I have both on different occasions spoken directly with Mr. Danies Lee, the CEO of NextStar—the joint venture that is building the battery plant in my hometown, in Windsor-Essex—and we've communicated our expectation that we want to maximize local Canadian workers at every turn and at every opportunity.

We've also pushed NextStar to establish a working committee between the employer and the building trades, so that information can be exchanged, best practices can be exchanged, any plans in terms of hiring can be exchanged moving forward, and any conflicts and concerns can be ironed out.

That has been our position from the very beginning. We want to see local workers, Canadian workers, maximized at every turn.

Right now, I drive past the battery plant every single day on my way to work when I am in Windsor. I see the battery plant being built right now, and it's incredible to see. I have never seen a project of this scale and this size, ever. It is incredible to see, and when you drive down Banwell Road, what you see is row upon row of pickup trucks and cars of Canadian workers, local workers, building the battery plant. It is incredible. It literally stretches for what feels like kilometres, and the parking lot is absolutely jam-packed with local workers, Canadian workers, building the battery plant.

Let's look at some facts here. There are 2,000 workers currently on site, building the battery plant, 2,000 workers who are local, who are Canadian, building the battery plant, and when that battery plant is completed there will be another 2,500 permanent workers building batteries for generations.

These are workers who are local, Canadian and unionized. That's 4,500 workers related to the battery plant in my hometown here in Windsor-Essex, Windsor—Tecumseh specifically.

Right now, there are about 70 to 72 workers who are from abroad, who are international. You have 2,000 Canadian workers building the plant and you have another 2,500 permanent workers coming who are Canadian and local. Compare that to 72 workers right now who are international, who are foreign workers. If you just look at who's building the battery plant, that's four per cent. That's four per cent.

It is important to highlight that this is the very first battery plant in all of Canada, the very first battery plant to be built in all of Canada, and Canada does not have the expertise of building and running battery plants. This is new. We're trying to build a brand new industry here in Canada, so it stands to reason that there will be workers from Korea. Korea has been building batteries, and LG, which is a Korean company, has been building batteries for over 30 years. It has 30 years of experience in building battery plants and building batteries. It is the world leader in battery technology.

These workers are coming to Canada not only to help us kick-start and spark a brand new industry, which they are the world leader in, but to help provide Canadians with training, so that we will be able to build batteries for generations to come. The Korean workers who are coming here are coming not only to help install equipment and help us get the battery plant up and running in a timely fashion, so that 2,500 Canadian workers can start working there, but to help us transfer knowledge and give us a head start, so that we can catch up and get up and running to build batteries for generations to come.

Windsor is just the start. When you look at the last four years across southwestern Ontario, you see $50 billion in automotive investment. This is incredible when you see the level of investment in the automotive industry, specifically in electric vehicles, battery manufacturing, vehicle assembly, electric vehicle assembly and building the necessary components that go into batteries.

The most recent announcement was the $15-billion Honda investment in Alliston, Ontario. That was the latest investment in a string of investments that our federal government has delivered to Canada. We've delivered $50 billion of investment. The Honda investment is the single largest auto investment in the history of this country. It's the largest battery investment in all of North America, and we delivered it here.

The world is coming here to Canada to build batteries, to build electric vehicles and to build the components that go into batteries. The world is coming here.

Look at Stellantis-LG, a Korean company, here in Windsor-Essex. That's creating 2,500 jobs.

You have Volkswagen coming to St. Thomas, just up the road, to build. That's a multi-billion dollar investment, creating 4,000 jobs in St. Thomas, Ontario. Volkswagen's a German company.

You have Northvolt coming to Quebec. Again, thousands of jobs will be created to build batteries. Northvolt is a Swedish company.

Now you have Honda making huge investments in Alliston, Ontario. Of course, you have Ford in Oakville, and General Motors as well.

It's the federal government that is stepping in to partner with these companies to bring those investments and those jobs here.

I can understand why the Conservatives want to do everything possible to create a circus around this success story in Canada, try to undermine it and try to diminish what we've accomplished here as a federal Liberal government by bringing $50 billion of auto investment to Ontario. In the last four years, we've completely revitalized, rekindled and strengthened automotive manufacturing in southwestern Ontario.

The reason the Conservatives want to undermine this good-news story.... They oppose everything, but the reason they particularly want to oppose this progress and this momentum is simply that it highlights that the good news we're delivering here is in stark contrast to the misery the Conservatives delivered when they were in government eight years ago.

I can speak to that. Under the previous Conservative government, eight years ago, 300,000 manufacturing jobs were lost in Canada. The current Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Pierre Poilievre, was the employment minister at the time. He was the jobs minister at that time in Canada, when we lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs.

We felt that pain in Windsor. We felt that pain, because under the previous Conservative government, we had 11.2% unemployment in Windsor-Essex. I'll say it again: 11.2% unemployment.

Think about that. We had 30% unemployment for young people who didn't see a future in my community. Under the Conservative government, you saw my city contracting and my community getting smaller, because young people were leaving in droves. They didn't see a future, and you had people leaving Windsor-Essex to go work on the oil sands and send money back, because there were no jobs in Windsor-Essex. This was under the Conservatives.

We know what it feels like in our community when we see manufacturing suffer, when we see factories closing and when we see businesses closing and families leaving. We know that pain in Windsor-Essex. The Conservatives see the $50-billion investment in automotive and manufacturing across Canada in the last four years. They see the revitalization of automotive across Canada, and they don't like how that looks, because, again, it makes their performance and their track record look even worse.

We've done it. From Windsor to St. Thomas to Oakville to Alliston to Quebec, we are revitalizing automotive and manufacturing. Not only that, but we are building the electric vehicle and battery heartland of North America right here in this community.

Again, it is important to listen to the ironworkers and the millwrights and the concerns that they have brought forward. We are communicating that, and we are pushing NextStar to maximize the local workforce as much as possible. We want to go even higher than the 96% right now, where we see that 96% of workers are Canadian and local. We want to up that, so we will continue to push NextStar to maximize wherever possible.

The solution that the Conservatives are bringing forward here to open up contracts to the public, the agreements that we have signed with these companies and these major investors, is absolutely wrong. It's the wrong path; it undermines all the agreements we've brought forward, and it undermines business confidence in Canada. It also undermines future investment in Canada, and don't take my word for it.

I want to read a letter into the record here, because this is important. This is a letter that is signed by the president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association. This is a letter that is signed by the president and chief executive officer of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, representing hundreds of thousands of businesses across Canada. This is a letter signed by the president and CEO of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters. This is a letter that is signed by the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association and the Global Automakers of Canada. The letter is addressed to committee members on behalf of Canada's largest manufacturers and employers, who wrote to share their deep concerns regarding the efforts of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates to release contracts between the federal government and private sector companies. The efforts of this committee to release confidential commercial contracts threaten, they said, to reverse Canada's recent progress in winning job-creating investment. Commercial contracts are negotiated in confidence with the federal government and contain proprietary information, competitive strategies and intellectual property. There is no other competitor jurisdiction that releases confidential commercial contracts. By making these contracts public, they said, the committee would bring into question Canada's adherence to the rules-based trade and investment system on which our economic prosperity depends. Doing so would inflict permanent damage on Canada's welcoming investment climate.

Let me repeat that: They said that doing so would inflict permanent damage on Canada's welcoming investment climate. Furthermore, they said the committee risks doing irreparable harm to Canada's investment attraction negotiating positions, since such an action could result in previously negotiated agreements being reopened and competing jurisdictions using the information to undermine Canada's competitiveness for future investments. They urged the committee to protect the rule of law and uphold Canada's well-deserved reputation as a reliable jurisdiction for job-creating investment.

Folks, that is unequivocal. You have the automakers, the manufacturers and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce all saying that this is a bad move for Canada. This will undermine not just present investment; it will undermine future investment. It will undermine Canada's ability to attract investment and jobs, and it will hand our competitors—jurisdictions in the United States, China, Mexico and elsewhere in Europe—an advantage. This is what the Conservative Party wants to do.

At the end of the day, this impacts workers. This impacts the 2,000 workers building the battery plant in Windsor. It impacts the 2,500 Canadian workers who will be building batteries for generations to come in Windsor and the thousands of local Canadian workers who will be building batteries in the plants in St. Thomas, in Alliston and in Quebec.

This is a wrong path. This is a dead end for Canada.

I honestly cannot believe that the Conservatives are ignoring the letter signed by the Chamber of Commerce, the parts manufacturers and the car makers. They're willfully ignoring it, because they will do everything they can to diminish the good news story, which is $50 billion of automotive investment in this country and literally within a few hours drive from Windsor.

I mean, what the Conservatives are proposing here is incredibly dangerous.

It's not just the business community. We had Lana Payne, president of Unifor, the largest union in Canada, saying that this is ridiculous, that this is nothing but a “circus” that the Conservatives are trying to drum up, and that this is trying to undermine confidence in these investments. We had the president of Unifor publicly stating that this is a wrong move.

You had Dave Cassidy, who's the president of Local 444, which represents 5,000 Stellantis workers in Windsor and 20,000 retirees in Windsor, coming in front of the mic in Ottawa and doing a national press conference. He stated that this is “nothing but political hay”.

This is nothing but a circus. It undermines the real work that we're doing, which is bringing auto investment and jobs to communities like mine.

You have the business community saying this is wrong and dangerous. You have Unifor, the folks who represent the workers saying that this is wrong and dangerous.

No, I will not support this motion or where this is going.

I mean no offence, Mr. Perkins, but rather than listening to you, I'd listen to the folks representing the workers. I'd rather listen to the folks representing hundreds of thousands of businesses and manufacturers in Canada, who are saying that this is simply wrong and that this is egregious. That's where we stand on this motion.

I'll tell you, I had an opportunity to speak with businesses in Windsor-Essex on this very issue of the foreign workers coming here to help set up the battery plant. If you speak to manufacturers—any manufacturing company in Canada—and ask about installing equipment, they will say the same thing: They, themselves, send Canadian workers to Mexico to install Canadian-built machines. They will send Canadian workers to the United States to install Canadian-made machines. This is the way the manufacturing world works.

Also when we install CANDU reactors in other countries, and when we will be installing small modular nuclear reactors in other countries—Canadian machines and Canadian equipment—you can absolutely bet your bottom dollar that we will have Canadian workers travelling to Korea and installing CANDU reactors and equipment. You will have Canadian workers travelling to the United States to install Canadian equipment. You will have Canadian workers going to Germany to install Canadian-made machines and equipment.

That is what happens in manufacturing. This is standard operating procedure in manufacturing, especially when some of that equipment is proprietary and especially when, for some of that equipment, if you don't have those specialized workers installing it, the warranty on that machinery is invalidated. This is so common. When you talk to every manufacturer, this is common practice.

The 72 folks who are coming here from Korea are doing so to install proprietary equipment. They are coming here to supervise. They are coming here because they have know-how and they're sharing 30 years of expertise with us. They're also training Canadian workers.

There are Canadian workers right now from Windsor who have travelled to Poland to be trained at the LG battery plant there in Wrocław. There are Canadian workers there, as we speak, being trained. There's also a knowledge transfer taking place.

Where there is misunderstanding, concerns or conflict, again, we absolutely are leaning on NextStar to make sure we maximize local workers and make sure NextStar is listening to CBTU, the ironworkers and the millwrights and pushing them to solve that issue internally. That's where this issue needs to be solved. We will continue to push, because we want to maximize at every opportunity and at every turn.

However, to go from this issue—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. Let me interrupt you for a point of order.

Go ahead, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll give Mr. Kusmierczyk a chance to breathe and to take a drink of water.

With all due respect, I think we're debating the amendment, which is about referring this motion to INDU. While I appreciate that Mr. Kusmierczyk is passionately defending his government's approach on these contracts, I don't think it has anything to do with the very procedural amendment to refer this to another committee. I would just ask, Mr. Chair, that you rule on my point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach. I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up.

Our colleague from northern British Columbia does have a point, Mr. Kusmierczyk. We are debating the amendment and not the motion itself. Could you get to the amendment? You had a good run there, sir.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I appreciate that, but again, I have an issue with the direction of this entire discussion. I have an issue with INDU, even in the debate that is taking place in INDU as we speak, because in INDU, they're studying the motion to basically open up the contracts. I have an issue with that. I have an objection. I have an objection to the amendment. I have an objection to the motion. I have an objection to where both the amendment and the original motion are leading. I'm trying to explain why.

Mr. Chair, this is serious for my community. This is playing around, as I see it and as we see it in my community—as Dave Cassidy sees it, as Lana Payne sees it, and as the manufacturers see it. This is dangerous territory. That is what I need to make clear as we discuss this. I have serious reservations. I object to the original motion. I reject it. I have serious concerns with the amendment as well. Again, I object to where both of those are leading. It's a fundamental principle.

Again, I just don't understand why you can have the president of Unifor, the largest union in Canada, saying that this is wrong and egregious; how you can have the president of our Unifor Local 444, who represents auto workers in Windsor, saying that this is political theatre, this is political hay, this is egregious and this is wrong; and how you can have the CEO and the president of the parts manufacturers, the auto makers and the Chamber of Commerce saying that this is egregious, this is wrong and this is dangerous, and still as a committee we're completely ignoring all those voices from labour and industry and we're listening to Mr. Perkins.

We choose to listen to Mr. Perkins and Mr. Genuis and entertain their dangerous motion. I don't understand how we could do that. I really don't understand how we could do that. This is a serious motion. This is a motion that undermines the very hard work of the last four years to beat out other jurisdictions that were going after these investments, that were leaving no stone unturned and that were fighting tooth and nail to land these battery plants. We won those investments. Those were hard-won investments. In a lot of those investments, they were photo finishes. It was very close with other jurisdictions.

I take serious issue with the fact that this is something that was brought up at industry committee before the Christmas break. Mr. Perkins tried as hard as he possibly could to get this through. It was dangerous then, and it is dangerous now.

It's a matter of principle. He failed at industry committee to get this through, so now he's knocking on another door and seeing if he can get it through this committee. He wants to try a different door, see if he can get this through another committee, and use this committee as well to basically try to undermine and diminish the Honda announcement and the $50-billion announcement by trying to raise this issue.

It is absolutely important for us to reject that here, to put a stop to this here. An end to this circus here is what I want to see, because these are real jobs that are impacted in my community. I can tell you that this is something our Prime Minister has stated directly. He is meeting with the CBTU and is having those important conversations. We are having those conversations with NextStar. We are pushing to maximize local workers wherever possible.

The facts speak for themselves. In Windsor, 2,000 Canadian, local workers are building that battery plant as we speak. There are 70 Korean workers helping out to make sure we transfer that knowledge to train our workers, to make sure that the plant is up and running as quickly as possible so that two and a half thousand local, Canadian, unionized workers can begin building batteries for the North American market for generations to come.

This matters. This is serious.

I've lived in a community where we've seen 11.2% unemployment. You do not want to see 11.2% unemployment in your community. It is soul crushing. It is painful to watch when you see factories closing, when you see moms and dads out of work, when you see families ripped apart, broken apart because of that. When you see the mental health and the anguish, when you see families separated because mom or dad have to travel for 12 months of the year working in the oil sands, coming back from time to time on weekends, and the pressure that puts on families and on kids, when you see businesses in your downtown shuttered—a ghost town—when you see your population shrinking because young people are graduating and they're leaving in droves to find work elsewhere, you do not want to see that. I do not want to return to that. Our community has gone through hell.

To see a generational, historic investment like the battery plant, the thing we dreamt about—a $5-billion investment, 2,500 permanent jobs, 2,000 temporary jobs right now—and to watch the Conservatives playing games with this investment, blowing the circus up on this investment, makes me sick, and it makes me angry, and it makes me frustrated, because we should not be playing games with people's jobs and we should not be playing games with the future of communities like ours, like mine, working-class communities that have gone through hell in the last eight years.

I would ask my Conservative colleagues to take that into consideration when they are playing games with what is a generational investment for my community.

That's all I have to say on that issue. I really hope that my colleague in the NDP, Mr. Bachrach, understands where I'm coming from. I hope that we can count on his support to put an end to this circus and get on with the business of building battery plants and building batteries and building jobs in working-class communities like mine.

Thank you.