Health Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, I want to start with this. I believe your outburst earlier was inappropriate. I believe that it was very charged. I believe you owe not only the committee members here but also those who were sitting beside you an apology. If you could have see the look of shock on their faces when you had your outburst—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please get to the question, Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The question I have for you is whether substance use disorder is a mental illness. Are you going to answer?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

To the first point, I did become emotional, and I apologize for that. I think it's so terrible. I have never done this. To cast aspersions and particularly to accuse another member of advocating for death and not caring about human life, I think at a certain point we have to draw lines in our discourse. At a certain point we have to say there are boundaries and places that we shouldn't go—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Sir, are you going to answer my question?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—and there are things that are inappropriate. I would suggest that Mr. Cooper's making the suggestion that I or any other member of Parliament doesn't care about human life is irresponsible and is something that at some point, yes, will elicit an intemperate response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay.

Mr. Doherty also asked a question about whether something was—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is substance use disorder a mental illness?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think we have a crisis absolutely with substance use in this country. Substance abuse in many instances has at its root a mental health concern.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is it a mental illness, though?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you both.

The last question is for the Liberals.

Mr. Maloney, go ahead.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both ministers.

My question is going to be for Minister Holland. This is an emotionally charged debate. I don't think anybody needs to apologize for demonstrating passion when they are discussing this.

I have been involved in this process since very early on, along with Mr. MacGregor, Mr. Cooper and others. We're dealing with a very specific issue and that is whether to postpone the implementation of MAID solely for the purpose of mental illness. We're not here to debate constitutionality. We're not here to debate advance requests. We can debate the morality. These discussions are going to take place in another context.

My question is this, and I put this to a witness earlier. I feel the only responsible thing that I as a legislator can do—and I think people around this table would agree with me—regardless of what side of the discussion I fall on, if I'm faced with a lack of consensus by professionals, is to postpone it to allow for further discussion.

There are two parts to my question. That's the first part. Do you agree with me? The second part is on the timeline. You have introduced a piece of legislation that postpones it for three years as opposed to indefinitely. Minister, you addressed this briefly earlier, but is the reason for doing that not to advance an agenda but to keep it on the agenda since, otherwise, it could just fall into never-never land?

Thank you.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think that's an entirely appropriate way to characterize it. I think the concern with putting it off indefinitely is that we leave those people—there are not many, but they're there—who are in intractable, horrifying conditions trapped in mental torture with no prospect of our moving toward any possible solution, so it creates an imperative to act and an imperative to keep moving.

In two years' time, Parliament will get the opportunity once again to conduct a parliamentary review and evaluate the state of readiness at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thanks—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The bill before us has been the subject of several Bloc Québécois motions to introduce the issue of advance requests. I can't accept the contention that we shouldn't discuss it because it doesn't concern what we're doing this evening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That wasn't a point of order, but rather an expression of your point of view.

First of all—I know you're aware of this—the motion that resulted in this meeting taking place indicated we could have a minister, and we had two ministers show up. Thank you.

I know it's been a long day for you. It's been a tough day for everyone. It's clear how important and how difficult this issue is, but it's also clear that you care deeply about it. We very much appreciate your being here and working through all of this.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We're adjourned.