Justice Committee on April 11th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You have 15 seconds.

[John Sikkema]

I don't think removing this is the only way to deal with the abuses that children face and that they're—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you for that.

Again, if there is anything that anybody wishes to say that we haven't had time for today, please send it to us in writing.

I will now move to Madam Brière for five minutes.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses.

I will ask my questions in French.

Ms. Butler, what's the balance between protecting children from corporal punishment and the fact that it isn't in the best interests of the child or our justice system to impose criminal sanctions on parents and teachers for these physical acts?

[Dr. Kate Butler]

Thank you very much for the question. I appreciate that you're bringing in the best interests of the child.

First of all, I would say that parental rights are not in conflict with children's rights. Parents have a duty and they are responsibility bearers. They need to uphold children's rights.

I want to think about the international context. Dr. Durrant has already mentioned New Zealand and Sweden. I'd also like to mention Ireland and Wales.

What we see when we look at what has happened worldwide is that police and the justice system are not pulling in parents for these kinds of situations. Instead, we're seeing many more positive parenting programs that are giving parents different options when this kind of situation occurs.

I'd also note that if you've read some of the letters that I believe came to the committee, you'll see the only cases that do get prosecuted are cases where children have been beaten very severely in the home. Having this total ban on corporal punishment is really important.

I want to pick up on one other point, which is that we're not saying that you can never use force in a case of safety, like the two-finger thing. I have a three-year old. If she's going to touch the stove, of course I can pull those two fingers away for safety, but I'm not afterwards going to slap her really hard on her two fingers. There's a difference between safety and punishment afterwards. I just wanted to say that.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you.

Dr. Durrant, would you like to add something?

[Dr. Joan Durrant]

Yes, thank you.

I think it's important that we're all aware that parents, teachers, early childhood educators, group home workers, youth care staff and everyone who cares for another person have a legal duty of care. If a parent did not put a child in a car seat, did not pull a child out of traffic or did not pull a child's hand back from the stove, they could be charged with negligence because they have a required legal duty of care. They are responsible for the care and protection of children.

What we're trying to end is acts of aggression, coercion and violence against children. We have a legal duty to care.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I'm sorry, Dr. Durrant, but I noticed that bells are ringing in the chamber. I need consent from all members to continue with the next seven minutes of this committee.

Do I have consent?

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming. It's 10:08, so we were going to finish in five minutes.

If there is anything you would like to add, please send it to us in writing.

There's one thing I wanted to decide with the committee, and if we have to, we will send it in writing. We know that on Monday we will continue with this study. I need to get a bit of feedback on whether we can do clause-by-clause on Thursday of next week. If so, we will be seeking to receive any amendments by Tuesday at noon. That would be the deadline.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

What day are we talking about, Madam Chair? Is it Wednesday?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

No, it's Tuesday for sending amendments and Thursday for clause-by-clause.

You can speak to me if you want so we can make a decision.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

That is what we agreed to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I want to confirm that this is what we want.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Fabulous. Thank you very much. That's exactly what we will do.