Official Languages Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

That's an excellent question, but, as you know, your time is up.

Ms. Ashton seems to be back online.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you so much.

I would like to thank our witnesses, Ms. Audet and Mr. Desgagné, for their testimony.

In Manitoba, we are great admirers of the work you do, Ms. Audet and Mr. Desgagné, and we all know how important it is.

With respect to our study, which involves economic development, how are you collaborating with Employment and Social Development Canada, or ESDC, on the Skills for Success project, which is the research project on the skills for success capabilities of the Canadian francophonie?

[Mona Audet]

I will let you answer, Mr. Desgagnés.

[Denis Desgagné]

The agreement has enabled us to revive a certain dynamism across the country, break isolation and work in partnership with all the economic and social organizations and their spokespeople.

We really do have something solid to meet future needs. ESDC seems to have to pull out all the stops and work very hard. Unfortunately, despite the good relationship we've had over the last few years, the fact remains that we had no sign of the agreement being renewed at the end of the year.

So, what's somewhat frightening for the organization is falling back into dormancy, an experience it's already had, and losing that dynamism.

ESDC transfers large sums to the provinces, but there are no resources for us. We do not even benefit from the usual consultations with RESDAC's spokesperson organizations.

As a result, we're falling back into a kind of dormancy and survival mode, and we're not really responding to current needs. The majority of organizations we know are able to do this, but exclusively in English. All research is done in English.

I could name you several sites that have been funded by EDSC but do research exclusively in English. We're going to make this research available in French, but it doesn't meet the specific needs of official language minority communities.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

I want to address the issue of economic development and immigration. As we know, immigration targets are ambitious.

Could you provide some comments on the fact that francophone adults from immigrant backgrounds could have particular needs when it comes to skills development support?

[Mona Audet]

I can answer this question, Mr. Desgagné, as it falls within my wheelhouse.

It's important to understand that the immigrants who arrive here are highly qualified. They have particular needs, depending on their status. There are different categories of immigrants, including refugees, asylum seekers and economic immigrants.

Thirty-five to forty percent of them do not speak English. They must therefore take the English courses that are provided. Some provinces, including Manitoba and some territories, pay for the courses and offer programs in English.

It's also important to think about the issue of recognition and the enormous amount of work that people do regarding employment. You encounter a double standard, two different worlds, when you contact an English-speaking company as opposed to a French-speaking company. Let me explain.

A francophone who would like to work in a profession offered only by English-speaking companies has to work doubly hard. He has to learn English and structure his new life, he has to go through preparation interviews, and so on.

In the workplace, English poses a double challenge. Immigrants who don't speak English need some time to adapt. Are we going to tell them not to apply if they don't speak English? Of course not. We need to provide them with the necessary resources and the opportunity to succeed.

Thanks to the digital microcertification program, it will be extraordinary to be able to access qualifications or skills that immigrants can incorporate into their CVs that will make them more attractive candidates.

These people want to work, and they need to work. They want to get involved and live in our communities.

I hope I've answered your question correctly. You see, I'm speaking from the heart.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I can see that very well.

This is also the reality of our French-speaking communities outside Quebec.

The purpose of our committee is to make recommendations to the government.

Can you suggest any recommendations as to what the government could do in terms of economic development to support the work you do or the needs of the communities you work with?

[Denis Desgagné]

One of the recommendations we could perhaps make concerns newcomers.

Currently there is a whole network for newcomers that works with the country's francophone immigration networks. These networks do very good work. Their members take care of the newcomers' basic needs, which are established according to Maslow's pyramid. These include, for example, the need to find work or housing.

We also need to think about community vitality. New arrivals feel a need to belong. It's to meet this need that RESDAC has developed skills that enable them not only to succeed, but also to flourish, whether in terms of language, as Ms. Audet pointed out a few seconds ago, or in terms of identity affirmation and civic engagement.

RESDAC, in collaboration with the Table nationale sur l'éducation, has defined four skills to be able to better meet the need for belonging, development and vitality enrichment. If we only work on the economy—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desgagné. You can continue later. I'm sorry, but we've even gone over the speaking time.

We'll move on to the second round of questions.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Audet and Mr. Desgagné, for your comments.

Do you work mainly with newcomers?

[Mona Audet]

No, we don't.

I gave an example from Manitoba earlier to show what I do on a daily basis. The network helps everyone who wants to improve their skills and knowledge. We work with all these people, because it's important.

Anyone who decides to come to a literacy or skills development centre should receive quality services that reflect their francophone reality. This applies to both immigrants and people from rural and northern communities, for example.

We try to provide a quality service to everyone, so that people can acquire skills and knowledge and have these abilities recognized.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you for the clarification.

Are many newcomers unable to read in either French or English, or are these people in the minority?

[Mona Audet]

Your question is a bit annoying, but I'll try to answer it without offending anyone. You know that economic immigrants are well educated, right?

I'm talking about refugees who have been in camps for three or four years. They come to the provinces and territories and don't know where to go. They have often had little or no schooling. These people really need services. I don't like to name them, because it's like putting them in a machine. These people want to learn and work hard. They want to succeed and get into the job market.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you. It's an important job.

Mr. Desgagné, you spoke a bit about skills recognition. Many people's qualifications aren't recognized here. It's challenging for them. That's the case for many newcomers. For example, 20,000 doctors in Canada can't practise because their skills aren't recognized. There are also 30,000 nurses in the same situation. Do you have any recommendations?

The Conservative Party feels strongly that these people should have their skills recognized. I'm not saying that anything goes, but their skills should be recognized here. These immigrants are often qualified doctors, but they can't practise when they get here. It's discouraging for them. It isn't good for them or for Canada.

Do you have any comments on this?

[Denis Desgagné]

Thank you for the question.

We need to work with all organizations in the Canadian francophonie. In the case of doctors, for example, our organizations must look into prior learning assessment. These people know their work inside and out, and we support them.

We work more on skills recognition, or what we call digital badges. This will ensure that certain skills are recognized and certified by post‑secondary institutions. However, prior learning certification falls under the purview of the formal sector. In the informal sector, microcredentials are awarded by educational institutions in a formal capacity.

We must work in partnership with the organizations in this process. Prior learning assessment falls under their purview. We must work across the board with mechanics, for example, and people from all fields.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Do you have any brief comments on this, Ms. Audet?

[Mona Audet]

Yes, I do, Mr. Dalton.

We need to rap on the knuckles of the professional associations and tell them that people from other places have the required knowledge.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Audet.

Ms. Kayabaga, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses.

I want to pick up on the question that my colleague asked earlier about the communities that you serve. In these communities, are there people whose children attend French‑language schools and who also want to improve their French so that they can help their children or family members in the schools?

[Mona Audet]

I'll let Mr. Desgagné answer your question.

[Denis Desgagné]

We work with all these organizations to support newcomers to Canada. For example, we help them understand how the institutions work and we guide them towards the schools. A number of RESDAC members work in partnership with the schools on literacy or numeracy and on various competencies such as digital skills. We seek, for example, to better guide newcomers towards host communities and francophone immigration networks.

We have a good network. We're working with all the institutions to better support these people. Not only do they need housing and an education, they also need a sense of belonging in Canada's francophonie.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

In your organization dedicated to the growth or development of francophone skills in minority communities, is there room for anglophones who want to join the francophone community? This would help build the francophone community.

Do you play a role in this? If so, what role?

[Mona Audet]

A number of our colleagues provide French courses, not just RESDAC.

You just mentioned schools. Schools provide French courses for young people who speak Arabic, for example, or another language. We provide French courses, and a number of my colleagues do as well. It's important.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I was talking specifically about parents or guardians, the people who support the individuals attending a French‑language school, but I'll move on now.

Are the services provided by the network currently available in all provinces and territories?

[Denis Desgagné]

Yes, they're available.

We have a member in each province and territory. In some cases, it's a network rather than a member. In Ontario, for example, it's the Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes, or COFA, which has a number of members. This coalition is supported by the provincial government.

I could also give the example of Alberta. In Edmonton, a single member goes to great lengths to cover an entire area. That's how we operate across the country.