Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

They're making money.

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Yes. They are a private enterprise. They are serving as our construction manager.

The important point that I really don't want to get lost in this is that the NCC had done an assessment prior to going down the road of engaging a construction manager to ensure that it was cost-effective—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes.

[Tobi Nussbaum]

—and it was the right course of action.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I hear you, and I'm not saying it's your fault that profits—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Keep it very brief, Mr. Desjarlais.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

—have been made here. The problem is that you were forced to do this because of a deferred-maintenance cost because of a decision of a government. Is that correct?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Mr. Chair, that's a hard question for me to answer.

I'm agreeing with the member that we had a deferred-maintenance challenge, and I'm agreeing that we made our best efforts to ensure value for money in the construction model we pursued. Those are two independent facts with which I agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

We're turning to Mr. Stewart.

You have the floor for five minutes. Go ahead, please, sir.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, through you to the witness, I think I have asked 26 questions between now and the first time Treasury Board and Public Works were here, and they basically said that you guys could answer all of those questions. Obviously, given the constraints on our time today, I'm going to email you, through the chair, every question that was unanswered. We have a rule at this committee that we are to receive the answers within three weeks. I'll send them to you today, and then we'll look forward to receiving those.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Let me just correct you. We have a precedent. We would appreciate a response within three weeks. If you're able to hit that, that would be great and you won't hear from us again. If you don't, you might hear from us.

Mr. Stewart, it's back to you.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through the chair to the witness, the Prime Minister's house at 24 Sussex is a lower priority than an $8-million barn. Clearly you, the board of directors, the government and everybody involved failed miserably to achieve value for money. One example of that is that you actually put an elevator in this building that goes underground. When you choose to build underground, the costs are significantly greater than when you build from the ground level up. Clearly, you failed miserably to get value for money. Two million Canadians per month are going to food banks. Many of them can't afford housing. We have a vast shortage of housing potential. We have people who literally can't afford to eat in this country.

You had private security on these grounds where there are already two levels or multiple levels of security. There was a private security detail attached to the construction of this building. You already had two levels of security on the grounds to begin with. That I find very strange, considering I had to walk through a mob, on camera, between Confederation and West Block the other day, where protesters were literally breaking our laws and obstructing MPs' ability to get to work. I'm confused as to why there would be so much security there.

Do you believe for a second that Canadians trust you to manage a $40 million-plus project on the Prime Minister's house when you've in fact prioritized a barn in place of it?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Mr. Chair, I do need to say that the NCC takes the stewardship of public funds extremely seriously. We ensure not only that there are external opportunities for review of the NCC's financial conduct through annual audits by the Office of the Auditor General—

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Excuse me. Do you believe that, though? Do you believe that prioritizing an $8-million barn over the Prime Minister's own house...? Do you believe that Canadians can trust you when you placed a barn as a greater priority than the house?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Mr. Chair, it may be useful to note, since the question of 24 Sussex was raised, that the NCC is awaiting a decision by the Government of Canada on the future of the official residence of the Prime Minister. It might be interesting—

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you for that. I appreciate the answer. I'm going to start there.

Let's look at the budgeted $8 million to renovate the Prime Minister's cottage at Harrington Lake. The last figure in the public domain was that it was more than $11 million to renovate the cottage—$3 million more—a significant financial cost to Canadians. Can you provide the committee with the most up-to-date figure for the renovations at the Prime Minister's Harrington Lake cottage?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Yes, we can.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

What is that number?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Oh, I don't have it on me. I wasn't prepared to speak to that property as part of—

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Really; that's one of the properties you manage, but you're not prepared to speak on it.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

In a sense, you've come totally unprepared, because you'd have that answer: What is the total cost of the renovations to the Harrington Lake cottage that the Prime Minister likes to run to on occasion, when he likes to hide? What's the cost of the renovation?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

[Inaudible—Editor] point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

It's not a point of order.

Mr. Stewart has made his point. Why don't we hear from the witness.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

[Inaudible—Editor] still hear the point of order.