Evidence of meeting #105 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thanks, Madam Chair, but I really don't have anything further to add than what my colleague just said, so that's great.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to add my voice. I didn't have a speaking slot at the last meeting, so I didn't get a chance to thank Karen Vecchio for her tremendous amount of work on this committee. I've been on this committee; I was here for two years, before she was chair, when Marilyn Gladu was chair and did a wonderful job, but for the last three years as well, with Karen as chair. My understanding is since she became chair in 2017, our committee has done 45 reports. That is phenomenal, if you want to compare that to every other committee. The amount of work, the effectiveness and, I would say, the fairness with which she chaired this committee is something I think many other committees in this place could look to as an example.
I did want to say, today, that I have concerns. I am very worried about the committee, but not because of you, Shelby. I want to be very clear that I think every one of us is very proud of the work we've done and wants to work very hard to fight to keep this a space that does not give in to the toxicity we see in other parts of Parliament and in other committees.
However, I do think that the Leader of the Opposition has been putting out a narrative that Parliament is broken, that democracy is broken, that Parliament is dysfunctional and that government members are so degenerate that there's no possibility of coming to consensus.
The way Karen chaired this committee is living, breathing proof that is not true. Every day that this committee was able to bring voices of women and girls, voices of non-binary and gender-diverse people who are not heard, and voices of victims and survivors, and work collaboratively with true respect and even friendship across party lines, we proved that Parliament can be functional, that Parliament is functioning and that democracy does work. I truly think that by removing Karen Vecchio as chair.... Pierre Poilievre had to destroy that because it defies his narrative that Parliament is not working.
I'm imploring you, Shelby, because I think, right now.... I've done governance work for decades and worked with parliaments here and around the world, and it is about incentives. It is about what's punished and what's rewarded. Every one of us comes to this place wanting to do good. I don't think there's a person who puts their name on a ballot who isn't doing so because they want to make Canada a better place, particularly the women here who want to do good and bring voices of women into the halls of power in this place, where we have been absent for too many generations.
However, once here, what happens is the incentives are against collaboration. This is a very partisan place. The structure and the very way in which it is formed is based on two swords' lengths. It was created 150-some years ago. It was created by men, and it has been a very aggressive, very male-dominated place. Lately, there's been a toxicity that has come into our politics, whether it's here in Parliament or outside.
What Karen was able to do very effectively as chair was to keep that out. Whether it was through wedge issues, ambush motions that are meant to hijack agendas, the “gotcha” clips on social media or the character assassination that we sometimes see in our political discourse, she kept that out of this committee, and she was punished for it.
Shelby, it wasn't just about Karen. It was about learning lessons. It was about teaching that collaboration and bringing voices of women is something that is not to be rewarded. I think the lessons I would really hope you learn are the lessons from this committee of the last number of years. I do believe very strongly that you want this committee to work, and we will support that.
All members of this committee, and we've seen all the members speaking, will support you to make sure that what Karen did is continued: Instead of listening to the voice of any one member of this committee, she listened to the voices of the witnesses and the voices of the women who came here and needed us to give them space. We will support you in making sure you continue to do that.
However, it is an uphill battle because of the way this place is. I was a staffer here in 2002. I was in the Liberal research bureau for the democracy caucus when committee chairs were voted to be elected. For those of you who don't remember, this was 22 years ago. There was a motion of Parliament that was opposed by the government of the day, the Chrétien government, but supported by backbench Liberals and opposition members. They created the election of committee chairs hoping to bring in a whole new era where committees would truly be independent and autonomous, and that the chairs would truly be independent of their parties—whatever party that was.
Sadly, over the years, I think all of us know that's become a little bit of a rubber stamp. Yes, we elect committee chairs, but it's pretty much the whips, the House leaders and the leaders who decide who those chairs are. Because of that, the chairs are beholden to those whips, House leaders and leaders—whatever party it is. With that incentive structure it can easily be abused.
I would like to do something positive today and come up with some ideas on how we change, as women.... We've been able to do it here despite the way that Parliament is structured in this sort of very aggressive and partisan way.
As women, I think we need to—maybe this committee, maybe the all-party women's caucus—go back to look at some ideas of how committee chairs are selected so that what happened to Karen doesn't happen....
In the Quebec legislature, they actually have a double majority for committee chairs—a majority of government members and a majority of opposition members. If you can't get both sides to agree, then, at that point you cannot be the chair, so the incentive is for the chair to be fair to both sides, like what we're hoping you'll do and like what Karen did.
We had a Conservative motion in 2012—I think it was by Brad Trost—that committee chairs should be elected by the entire Parliament, the same way the Speaker is elected, with a preferential ballot before committees are even set. That way, committees and the chairs would be chosen by all of us, not by the leadership or the whips.
I think it would be really good for us as women, who have really given a space to other women to be able to be heard in Parliament, to champion those kinds of changes, because I think it is really important that what happened here does not happen ever again.
Thank you.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I too want to thank Ms. Gazan for moving the motion. I also want to thank Ms. Vien. I understand what she is saying. I do not want to make a speech, and I am not going to take a lot of time. I would just like to say a few words, obviously, to thank Ms. Vecchio.
As well, I want to offer my congratulations to Ms. Kramp‑Neuman for her appointment as chair of the committee.
Madam Chair, we have some things in common.
Your father was an MP and my father was an MP. Daryl, your late father, passed away in February—my sympathies to you and your family. I know it was just recently. My father passed away too. I know you've lived in politics, and you understand the nature of working together and collaborating, so I'm looking forward to your being the chair here.
Obviously, as indicated in the past here from other members, there are some concerns about how we elect chairs, and that's something we maybe could address later on. I've been on this committee now since 2015. Marilyn Gladu was the first chair, and then obviously Karen came on. As indicated earlier, it's really something that we should be proud of.
We have done a lot of work here. We have had something like 50 meetings. I think it is important to take time to thank Ms. Vecchio for the way she supported all members of the committee, including me. That is why I wanted to speak today.
Ms. Vecchio did exceptional work that was based on her understanding of the issues and her desire to make changes to improve the lives of women across Canada. That was really important to her. She worked hard and she will be much missed on the committee. If my calculations are correct, she actually chaired this committee for seven years.
Ms. Vecchio showed leadership and encouraged collaboration here on the committee. We really want to keep going on that path, Madam Chair. There is no doubt about that. There is no toxic work atmosphere here on the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.
In the past when Karen would do some sessions here on the Hill, she would always mention how proud she was of every member of this committee. She would say that for all of the women in the status of women committee, and Marc. She would always just add that little caveat, so I'll miss her greatly. I think she's the only person who called me Marky-Marky.
11:20 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
We will dearly miss Karen. You know too, Shelby, the sacrifices Karen has made, and her husband, Mike, and their five children. She has done tremendous work as a parliamentarian, and obviously in the work we're doing here for women's rights and women's empowerment, and involving men in our conversation. I always have my moosehide on my 15 jackets, getting men involved in the fight to support women. Even in 2024, there's a lot more work to be done.
I just want to say thank you, Karen. Hopefully, you're listening. A big hug to you and your family. We'll see you across the aisle in question period and hopefully in other committees.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
I'll be quick, because I already congratulated you, Shelby, and I already said that I'm sad that Karen is gone. But I've reflected a little bit.
I think the only thing I want on the record is that this place, Parliament Hill, is a very difficult place for women to be, because it is a male-dominated area, and I don't appreciate when women are just tossed aside and replaced because of a difference of opinion or because they stood up for something they believed in or because they were doing their job. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened in this case. It's sad to see it happen to a fellow woman parliamentarian who has given her all for this place and for the benefit of all the women we've fought so hard for on this committee.
I just wanted to say that. I've been here on Parliament Hill for seven years, and it has been a struggle. I am sure all parties deal with this, and all women in all parties deal with this, but it's hard to see it happen to somebody who was so collaborative and who really helped move the dial forward for women across the country. That's all.
Karen, you will be greatly missed. I am really sad this has happened.
Shelby, I really hope we can continue the great work we've been doing on this committee, but we should be standing up for each other when these things happen. If it happens to one woman, it can happen to all women. When we move backwards in circumstances such as these, well, it's a really dangerous step in the wrong direction. It could be slippery and it could lead to more and more women getting treated this way.
I just wanted that on the record. I think we should be standing up for each other, no matter who it happens to or when it happens. Unfortunately, it happens to women more often than it happens to men, even though we're a minority in this place.
April 30th, 2024 / 11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I had quickly thanked Ms. Vecchio last week. I will also be brief, but I wanted to do it again. Since 2019 when I was elected, I have worked with Ms. Vecchio on the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. When I initially accepted this role, I was well aware that it was not a priority committee, unfortunately. Status of women issues are often seen as secondary, as less important.
These issues were my sole concern. First, I was happy to be appointed as status of women critic, within the Bloc Québécois, and then as vice-chair of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, but, on the other hand, I was worried, because I did not know what issues I would be able to make progress on. We work within a society that is still far too misogynist, just as is still the case in politics, where I sometimes have the feeling I am in an “old boys' club”, if I may say that.
I was nonetheless proud to have raised problems in other committees, whether it was assaults in the Armed Forces or the issue of assaults in sport, which we first tried to take to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.
Recently, on March 8, I gave interviews to some journalists. I talked about my pride. During those interviews, one journalist asked me a surprising question. He wanted to know why we still need a status of women committee in 2024. I was floored. That was when I realized all the work this committee does, all the work done by an exceptional chair, a strong and open-minded woman like Karen Vecchio. That has enabled us to do an incredible number of studies and produce reports that I hope will not be left on the shelf. Given that our committee is often seen as secondary, there is often a tendency to shelve our studies. I hope we will be able to continue our extremely productive work.
Madam Chair, I want to welcome you here and I congratulate you on your appointment. We have a lot on our plate. We must remember that we need to defend our committee, to stress the excellent and important work we do. There is still a lot of misogyny in our society and we have to point out that the work we do is done in partnership, hand in hand with men. You are welcome here, Mr. Serré.
Our battle is not with men, but too many men believe the feminist movement is against them. This gives rise to online misogyny and hate movements that are especially violent against women. We must denounce this violent speech, these online “men's rights” movements.
On the committee, we have to stress the importance of our work and we have to defend it. Our committee is not secondary. It must not be constantly pushed aside to make way for other committees.
I will stop there. I have already spoken for longer than planned.
Once again, congratulations to Ms. Vecchio. Welcome, Madam Chair, and let us now move on to serious matters. Let us vote on this important motion and continue doing the good work of the committee together.
Thank you.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
11:25 a.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Just very quickly, I wanted to say to you, Shelby, how much I appreciate you. I know this was a difficult welcome. Thank you for your grace.
I also want to commend all committee members. I care about all of you deeply, and I'm so very proud of us.
Thank you for letting us discuss this motion. It was important. I wanted to thank everybody and let you know I appreciate everybody on the committee so very much.
11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I would like to make one little technical comment. At the start of the meeting, the sound was not loud enough. It is a bit better now.
We are told not to turn the volume up to maximum and that is what I do, but it does not always work, and we miss words. The volume is not loud enough, Madam Chair.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Madam Chair, can I call for a vote? I'm bad with procedure. I should have done that before.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Certainly.
Is it the pleasure of the committee to go to a vote? We can just adopt the motion at ease, if that works for everyone.
(Motion agreed to)
In order to respect Karen's ambitious and expedient way of getting through studies and reports, let's keep moving.
With that, we'll go in camera.
[Proceedings continue in camera]