Veterans Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2024

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand you completely.

In the civil system, a rape victim can sue her attacker years later. Would you be able to sue your attacker fifteen years after the fact?

[Stephanie Hayward]

It would be like a goose chase, because I would have to figure out the names of these people and their ranks. I don't even know if it would endanger my life. To be honest, because of the high rank of the individuals who were involved, it would put my life at risk.

I fear talking about it now, because I know I'm not the only one. I heard from the sexual resource centre that there were people charged within the military system who were related to rapes similar to mine, and they can't be prosecuted twice. I believe that some of the people were caught. It's just that they will never tell me directly.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hayward.

I can assure you that we all have a great deal of empathy for you.

I congratulate you on reporting your assault.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desilets.

We'll end the round of questions with Ms. Blaney.

You have around six minutes to ask questions. Please go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both of the folks here who testified, and of course, I thank Stephanie for her service. My questions are coming to Stephanie.

Hi. It's good to see you. Thank you for doing this while you're looking after your kids. I've seen one of them run in and spend some time with you. I appreciate your time and appreciate you making this space for us today in your home.

My first question for you is around the women's study. We heard again and again that women felt invisible. As I was listening to your testimony and your responses to questions, I felt that I was hearing that your transition out of the military was not what you wanted but that the circumstances made it happen. I feel like there was an intention to keep you invisible during that transition.

What would be useful for us in the committee to know is what a helpful transition would have looked like for you with the circumstances you were faced with.

[Stephanie Hayward]

If they had flown me to a different hospital or a completely different treatment centre with someone who was a third party and not biased, I know for a fact that I wouldn't have been treated the same way as I was, and at least I would have had a case. I should have had a rape kit. I don't think any woman or any person signs up to have multiple people's DNA in her body at the same time. Then they would have had the criminals. They would have had the people who did it.

That's the point. They didn't want the evidence to have to argue it, and I had no leg to stand on. I believe that if I had been treated medically for my rape, even if it didn't come with compensation benefits, I would have had the right to put these people behind bars. I would have had the right to dignity and respect, and I wouldn't have medical negligence as a PTSD trigger for me. I wouldn't have fear of doctors. I wouldn't throw up outside my car after trying to get a pelvic exam done. I wouldn't have those things inflicted on me because of the harshness of the military medical system. They treated me enough to keep me alive, but they didn't treat me with dignity.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much for sharing that, and thank you for being so incredibly brave. I'm really sorry, because I understand that there will be consequences for you for this level of honesty. I just hope you have a lot of love supporting you through this time.

There's another thing I'd like to discuss with you, Stephanie. The longer I'm in this committee and the more veterans I spend time with, the more convinced I become that on the VAC side—and I think the CAF side is another place that should have it as well—we need more trauma-informed care. Also, we need people at all levels to be educated, probably continuously, and to keep up to date on all the ongoing training and information they need in order to provide trauma-informed care.

Looking at your history and at the challenges you face even today, you talked a lot about child care and not being able to access child care or get the health benefits or health supports you desperately need. I'm just wondering if you think having people better trained in trauma-informed care would allow them to understand the process you're going through and the complexity of it and would maybe influence policy on that frontline level.

[Stephanie Hayward]

I've had four case managers since I started at VAC in 2020. It was a battle with one case manager. It was like butting heads on just about everything that was awarded or overturned. It started with the critical injury benefit and then with SISIP. It was like a fight, a personal fight. I don't understand how it became personal.

There was no trauma-informed.... This woman sent somebody to the house to tell me that I'm choosing to be a victim over being a survivor. That was while I was holding my one-year-old son. I couldn't understand how a woman could look me in the eye and say that.

It's because they don't understand where I come from. They can't possibly believe this happened. They think it must be fabricated, because it couldn't happen on Canadian soil. This is something you hear about in a third world country. This couldn't possibly happen here, as if I must be blowing it out of proportion; I must be making it bigger than it is.

None of these people have lived the experience that I've lived. None of them have been through what I've been through in my circumstance. They have their own, but at the same time, I believe that veterans trigger Veterans Affairs employees, and this triggering leads to a battle of wits. I feel like I was doing more of the job of case manager than my own case manager. What made them mad is that I was doing more of the work—by reading the policies and applying for things—than they were doing for me.

They even tried to get me barred from SISIP, saying there was no way that I was totally disabled from the time of my injury. They tried to get them to overturn the decision, to the point that, while acknowledging that I was not receiving my benefits, they were trying to take away potential future or past benefits because they didn't believe that I was totally disabled, even though every other doctor and provider believed that I was totally disabled.

Why is the case manager determining medical conditions, ignoring providers in the community and going against what's best for a veteran? Those at VAC say they depend on things, but they don't depend on them for medical treatments. They allow the case manager to decide who is eligible for them. That's just absurd to me, because if any other insurance policy did this, they'd be charged. That's just my opinion.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

My time is about up, and I know we need to go. I just want to say again, Stephanie, that I really thank you for taking this time. I thank you for being so open and vulnerable. I hear what you're saying and I believe what you're saying. I look forward to us continuing to work together to make sure that you have the most success you can in your life.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Blaney.

We're going to end this meeting right here.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to say thank you to both of you for your courage.

Ms. Hayward, I hope you're not alone. If so, please take time to relax a bit. I know that your kid is with you. Take a big breath and drink water, because this was so tough. I can assure you that we are working very hard on the report on veteran women. I hope it will be ready soon.

We had with us Ms. Rima Aristocrat, the president of TeKnoWave Inc., and, by video conference, Ms. Stephanie Hayward. Thank you once again.

I'd like to ask members of the committee if we can we adjourn the meeting.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.