Finance committee  I'm happy to comment on that as well. You're right: firefighting and fire protection have been a municipal responsibility. Actually, one of the reasons municipal governments were first incorporated was, of course, to provide fire protection; therefore, it's definitely within provincial jurisdiction.

Finance committee  Sure, I might. I think it's important to remember that with a $1,000 or $2,000 tax refund at a marginal tax rate, whatever it is, you're looking at $800, $900 money back in your pocket. I'm not sure that's comparable to the income of a full-time firefighter.

Finance committee  You're right; it could be a slippery slope. I think in the end, though, that decision is always going to be within the accountability of that municipal government, because they're the ones who are going to have to pay for it. St. Catharines made that decision, and council would have been held accountable by voters.

Finance committee  I plead the fifth as well on that.

Finance committee  These stats come from the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs. They report that there are 84,000 volunteer firefighters and fire officers. That obviously would not include all the classifications under this bill. Ambulance workers and search and rescue technicians are also included.

Finance committee  I think I'd respond by making a couple of points. The first one is that rather than asking the fire chief, probably it would be best to ask the head of council or the council members who actually have to raise taxes to pay for those services. They're the ones who really need to have the final decision.

Finance committee  It's virtually all municipalities of 100,000 or less. Those between 10,000 and 50,000 have a large degree of blended services. As I said in my presentation, Ottawa is an example of a larger city with a contingent of volunteer firefighters. Halifax Regional Municipality is another.

Finance committee  For sure. I should actually mention—and again, I mentioned it in my presentation—that the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs made a very good submission in 2007, I believe, and Brian can correct me on that, I'm sure. They spoke specifically to that. In fact, volunteer fire departments already have very, very extensive record keeping because of legal liability issues, and human resource issues as well, because of workers' compensation claims, for instance.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for inviting us to appear. We're here to speak in support of Bill C-219, and in particular we'd like to support the principle of recognizing and rewarding the dedication of volunteer emergency workers. As I think you know, FCM represents 1,600 municipalities from coast to coast to coast that represent just about 90% of the Canadian population, and our board of directors formally supports the principles of this bill.

Human Resources committee  Michel could likely provide some background on some of the trends we've seen in housing and homelessness that we reported on in January, actually just prior to the release of our national action plan through the quality of life reporting system. Broadly speaking, some positive momentum has been built.

Human Resources committee  FCM believes that municipalities are an order of government, but they are clearly within provincial jurisdiction. However, having said that, we believe that the problem of poverty and eradicating poverty is so large, and it has such a significant impact on national prosperity, that it is going to require the participation of all three orders of government.

Human Resources committee  My comments will be quite general. There are many existing and past very effective federal programs, and there are some good ideas for future ones. The one comment I think I'd leave, and it's similar to what Mr. Sarlo had spoken about, is that we need to get a good handle on the scope of the problem and measure it carefully and then, really importantly, set targets and then make long-term commitments.

Human Resources committee  Well, certainly in January we released our National Action Plan on Housing and Homelessness, which laid out a fairly comprehensive plan on how all three orders of government could work together to reduce homelessness, to actually eliminate chronic homelessness and improve housing affordability.

Human Resources committee  Chair, in the handouts we have provided to you there are a number of recommendations as to how the Government of Canada could more effectively partner with municipalities to help municipalities measure data. I won't get into them now, but if there is an interest during the question and answer period, we can, of course, elaborate.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for inviting us to present on this important topic. I'd like to briefly introduce us first. My name is Mike Buda. I'm the acting deputy director of policy at FCM. With me is Michel Frojmovic of Acacia Consulting. He works closely with FCM on our quality-of-life reporting system, which we'll be discussing in a few minutes.