Justice committee  Ms. Mourani, do you have anything to add is this regard?

Justice committee  In a galaxy far, far away....

Justice committee  This is my first meeting.

Justice committee  I want to thank all of the presenters, of course. It's a very harrowing topic. It's very upsetting to all of us—more than upsetting. I don't know whether this is appropriate: I am a male but I also have a wife, a mother, a sister, and two daughters. This affects all of us. I know obviously I cannot speak from the experiences that all of you have come across, but it's important to have this on the record, so thank you, all of you, for doing that.

Justice committee  I think that's important to put on the record as well. Ms. Walker has been quite prescriptive in the things she's wanted to see. The same applies for Ms. Sylvestre. Maybe I'll just throw it over to Joy Smith. You identified, Joy, some areas where you felt that the bill wasn't taking these things seriously, so whether it's through this bill or through other legislation, could you just expand a little bit on how, in an ideal world—which is what we all aspire to on both sides of boardroom table—things could be made better so that you don't have to exist any more in the great work that you are doing for women and girls in our society?

Justice committee  Well, you don't want to gain a reputation in the system of abusing that privilege either, as a defence counsel.

Justice committee  Okay. Mr. Fowler, in terms of how things happen in practice, there's a constant evolution of criminal justice and the proceedings. Are you finding that your conclusion is that defence counsel, through that evolution, have come to a position now where the preliminary inquiry is used in an expert way, not for dilatory tactics, and that's where the evolution of that practice has come?

Justice committee  Thank you.

Justice committee  Thank you to the panellists for taking time to be here with us as we study the bill. I want to get a couple of elaborations from a couple of the individuals. Ms. Dale, you talked about the false hope of efficiency when it comes to eliminating preliminary inquiries. In your view, and maybe this is to Mr.

Justice committee  But in terms of the experience of your practice—that's where you do have some expertise obviously, because you're there on the ground where these cases are being considered—you're not concerned that it's contributing to the challenge that is being faced in the wake of the Jordan decision.

Justice committee  Have you seen many cases of abuse of the preliminary inquiry in your practice?

Justice committee  Thank you, Chair. Thank you for your remarks, Mr. Rankin. I don't have any prepared remarks, but I do have some thoughts about this motion. I take as the basis for the request your very well-expressed belief that this issue is important to study. I may or may not agree with a little context that you've woven into the discussion, but I think the basis of the motion is to have a study about the use of section 33.

Justice committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Justice committee  It's a pleasure to be here, Chair.

Justice committee  Thank you.