Transport committee  Welcome to open competition. That's the price we pay. Unless you walk in there and start talking about controls, the market will in fact decide the pricing structure that's going to be in place. There's nothing preventing the airlines—

Transport committee  That's correct.

Transport committee  I think one of the things we're seeing at Trudeau airport and at Pearson as well is that the decisions that are being made and the investments being made in the airports really are what the.... They don't really understand the impact of those investments on the whole of air transport and travel through the airport.

Transport committee  It could. I think NavCan in terms of its investment profile and the way it's been managing its own fate over the last few years has been exemplary. I think it is considered one of the better-run nav centres around the world. I think one of the things that's happening in the U.S. is that there's been a lack of investment in the U.S. navigation systems, and it's coming home to roost.

Transport committee  Yes, I do. As I mentioned, I've been around this business for a few decades. I remember the days of regulation. I remember the days of price control. I remember the days in which you established a direct relationship between the cost of flying passengers from point A to point B and the price you charged passengers from point A to point B.

Transport committee  Yes, the question becomes one of if you let the system decide on its own what they think is best for them. Right now in the current governance model we have for our airports, the independent authorities that run these airports decide by themselves what's good and what's not good for them.

Transport committee  I'll jump in on that one to start the ball rolling. When we talk about the way we look at services in Canada, if there is one part of the population in Canada that really is getting the short end of the stick when it comes to air services, it's the north. The north has been served by carriers that are subsidized by various levels of provincial governments over the years, and the first nations themselves are subsidizing some of that traffic.

Transport committee  I think our friends in the northern Scandinavian countries have done a pretty good job of looking to try to coordinate among the different levels of government. The level of aviation support in those communities.... If you really want to have a look at how they've done it, it's an interesting model.

Transport committee  Talking about the way we operate across borders is key. In the conversations I've had with U.S. transportation officials, they are keen to look at—some how, some way—harmonizing the practices across our border. They know that we are in a state of flux in terms of what the Canadian government's policies are.

Transport committee  You're touching on something that's been close to my heart for the last couple of years, following up the national supply chain, policy papers and the view about what's wrong with our supply chains in Canada. Airports are an integral part of that supply chain. One thing that we have seen is that we keep pointing the finger at the government for a lack of integrating capability across all the different players out there.

Transport committee  When we talk about the regulatory regimes in which airports, airlines and the rest of the aviation community work, I think you want to make sure that you're looking into a regime that removes as many operational and financial constraints as possible to ensure that you're giving the airlines and the airports a chance to survive.

Transport committee  I didn't invent the term “junk fees.” I'll just leave that to other pundits to claim ownership. When we talk about junk fees, they're characterized as fees that are over and above whatever you pay as your base fare in an airline context. You pay for seat selection, a carry-on bag or a checked bag.

Transport committee  Thanks, Karl. I much appreciate that. When you talk about the proliferation of these carriers and how they operate, carriers tend to have a certain life in Canada that, unfortunately, is short. In the U.S., Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier have been around for a number of years, as has Southwest.

Transport committee  Thank you, Mr. Bachrach. I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of where we, as Canadian people, ought to be putting our dollars and cents in trying to support transportation in this country. The railways built this country 140 years ago. We've evolved the Canadian air transportation system over the last 110 years to the point that I now consider that Canadians feel air travel is an essential Canadian human right and we need air travel in order for this country to survive.

Transport committee  I don't think so. The world is having a problem serving regional markets that have insufficient densities, as Professor Moore mentioned. If you don't have the travelling public there to support an essential service you're not going to get direct service. I think there is no region in the world that has a characteristic that we should model.