Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Michelle LeClair]

I'll tell you, our communities are struggling. We are in the process of working outside of this with Bill C-92. It really is looking at what is happening to our communities, why the kids are being taken, and what kinds of services these kids have.

We've heard time and time again—and I'm sure everybody hears it across Canada—about mental health services for children. In Saskatchewan, you are on a two-year waiting list to get your child in for any kind of an assessment. People languish. Kids end up in correctional systems, or what have you, because we cannot give them the support they need at the times they need it. There's such a lack of programming. I mean, the provincial government isn't doing a great job of being in loco parentis, which means that the minister is their father. It's ridiculous.

We know. We don't need Canada or Saskatchewan to come into our communities and tell us what we're doing wrong; we know what's happening. It's been systematic. They've been doing it wrong, and it's time for us to take our kids back and figure out our own way to deal with this in our community.

[Margaret Froh]

Mr. Chair, can I just offer one additional point for members of the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes. Please go ahead briefly.

[Margaret Froh]

There's a great op-ed piece in today's Hill Times by Theresa Stenlund, who's a regional councillor within our government. It's about a wonderful pilot that our northwestern Ontario Métis community has established. It's the first-ever Métis child and family services agency in the province.

I think it will be very helpful for members to consider that. I'm just adding to what's already been said.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you for raising that.

Madame Gill, it's over to you for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to reiterate that I'm playing devil's advocate here. We need to be able to stand behind the decisions we make as parliamentarians.

The witnesses have spoken of myths. Some first nations people are quite vocal in their opposition to the bill, and we've heard them. I would like to hear you explain why some indigenous nations are against the bill. There may be some in Ontario.

I don't know if Ms. Froh, Ms. Sandmaier or Ms. LeClair would like to respond. If you don't have enough time, you can, of course, send us a written response later.

[Margaret Froh]

Thank you for the question.

There are some who are saying they don't want the bill to go forward. I understand that they are saying that it's going to impact their rights. As you've heard already, this bill is about our internal self-government. It impacts only our three Métis governments. It impacts only our citizens. It has no impact on any other indigenous people.

I want to come back to your last question, honourable member. I think it's important that the question you were asking was about an individual Métis in section 35. I think it's very important to point out that section 35 rights are actually collectively held rights. An individual can choose to become a citizen of a Métis government or not. It's actually the rights-bearing community that holds those rights. That's exactly who it is that we represent with our three Métis governments. We represent rights-bearing Métis communities, which means the people within our respective jurisdictions. That's what section 35 is all about and that's what Bill C-53 is all about. It's in recognition of that. It's recognizing our inherent rights of self-determination.

[Michelle LeClair]

To add to what Margaret was saying, we are opening up the door. We have an expert panel. We would love to hear cogent arguments about how they see this bill in any way impacting them or any of their rights.

We talk about what it does do, but I feel as though, when we're talking about this, we need to talk about what it doesn't do. It doesn't touch land. It doesn't talk about all of these other things. You used the word “myth”; there were these myths or discussions out there that really have no bearing on what we're talking about today.

I think that answers that question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's the end of the two and a half minutes.

Ms. Idlout, we're ready to go to you. The floor is yours.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I don't really have a question. I just want to state that this is very important. As I said earlier, we're talking about rights. You have rights. We have to work together as one. The Inuit, first nations and the Métis nations have to stand together—all of us as indigenous peoples of Canada—and we have to support each other. I believe very strongly in that, because in Canada, we indigenous people were rendered apart. The government attempted to render us apart and change our cultures, but now the first nations are saying, “No. We have our rights.”

Today I thank you, because you have made it so much clearer, and I believe that we are moving toward having rights equal to any other nation's.

Thank you. I just want to thank you very much for coming to speak here.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thanks, Lori.

I know there wasn't a question there, but there's a minute left in Lori's time, if anybody would like to make a comment.

Ms. Sandmaier, you didn't get to finish in the last round, so I'll go to you, if you would like to take a bit of time here.

[Andrea Sandmaier]

I just want to thank you, honourable member, for your statement.

I also want to say we have heard the myths and the first nations speaking out against the bill. Recently—actually, right after I was elected, in that same week—I went to a flag raising at a post-secondary school in Edmonton. After the ceremony, their first nations elder came up to me and said, “Congratulations. Congratulations on your self-government legislation. We need to work together. We are all related. We have family who are first nations. We have family who live on settlements. We all need to work together.”

I think a lot of what's been going on and what's been said is very political, but when you get to the grassroots and speak to people, there are a lot of different stories out there—a lot of positive stories—and a lot of congratulations from people that we're moving forward. In turn, that moves them forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you so much.

Next, for five minutes, we have Mr. Viersen.

The floor is yours.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

It's interesting. I didn't anticipate all the issues around child care.

I was here when this committee was dealing with Bill C‑92 back in 2019. Ms. LeClair, can you talk a bit about how Bill C‑92 is or is not fulfilling the child welfare issues that your community is dealing with, and why you need this particular piece of legislation to do that?

[Michelle LeClair]

Bill C-92 is at its beginning. Right now, we're doing an environmental community scan by engaging our communities to see what the gaps are and why kids are being taken.

When you think about child and family services, you don't just think about children and families; you think about what impacts those families: housing, the high cost of food, the ability to care for them in a clean environment and all those things. There's a lot with Bill C-92. It is an opportunity to look at those issues. Then, if you want to trigger Bill C-92, there's a lot of work to do in terms of legislation. As you know, as parliamentarians, you need to have things done right, especially when you're taking care of children and families. That takes some time.

We are working on that, but we're also working towards this other piece, which I think goes hand in hand with Bill C-92. The right to be able to take care of our families is a huge piece.

I'll tell you a story.

I met a young 16-year-old who was aging out of care. They gave her a book this size and a pittance of money and said, “Here you go. This is who you are.” That's when she realized she was a Métis kid. Her dad was from Buffalo Narrows, Saskatchewan, and the mother was from British Columbia. She had no cultural connection, nor did she know who she was. This happens every single day. I can walk out of here and down around the mall, where people are unfortunately suffering from mental health issues, and probably talk to kids who've aged out of the system.

It's not the provincial government's job or the federal government's job to figure out how to deal with those young people. The problem was created by churches and governments stealing our kids and doing all of that. It is our job to teach them their language and culture, and to meet their mooshums, kookums and families. That's one of the most important things in this legislation—for us to be able to say, “We are an indigenous governing body and we will take care of our own. You didn't do it very well. We need to do it, because we know how to do it.”

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Ms. Froh, you were nodding away. What did you have to say?

[Margaret Froh]

Thank you for the question.

I completely agree with Vice-President LeClair.

I think this is an incredibly important part of the bill: recognition of our governments as indigenous governing bodies. Give us the tools we need to utilize Bill C-92, if we need them. That is critically important.

I think she has done a beautiful job talking about the impact of many different colonial policies. The sixties scoop isn't just from the 1960s. There is a child welfare industry, and our Métis children are very much impacted by this. Bill C-53 recognizes our government's right to take care of our own children.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You have 20 seconds.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What has prevented the implementation of Bill C-92 up to this point? I know many communities in my area have already implemented it. They're doing their own care, essentially.

[Andrea Sandmaier]

I think every indigenous governing body looking to Bill C-92 is at a different stage. For the Métis Nation of Alberta, we're in year three, I think, of building our authority, model of care and law. It takes time to do it right. We want to make sure we do it right. We don't want to be left, as soon as we do our coordination agreement, saying that we are now the authority over Métis children within Alberta and then get a whole bunch of files dumped on us. We don't want to go there. We know there are other indigenous governing bodies in Alberta that this has happened to.

We want to make sure we're doing it the right way. I don't think it's a matter of it not being implemented; I think governing bodies are taking time to make sure it's happening correctly and that we're doing the right thing.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you. We're out of time for that one.

Mr. McLeod, I see your hand is up. Do you have a point of order or a technical issue?

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I could hardly hear Mr. Viersen. He wasn't speaking into the mike. Maybe just give a reminder.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I already claimed my time.