Public Accounts committee  Over the last year, we've engaged first nations rights holders specifically on these questions of why so many programs, how to modernize, how to monetize and how to bring more modern municipal practices to the first nation environment.

Public Accounts committee  Capacity is certainly part of that conversation, but, ultimately it comes down to choice. We have many programs. We have a housing program, but we have a water program and a school program. Sometimes those don't align with the needs of the community, so the community should be empowered to choose where those investments go based on the investments that are available.

Public Accounts committee  The question of appropriations is a parliamentary question, but I would say we were happy to work with the Assembly of First Nations in quantifying the infrastructure gap. We engaged first nations for over a year to understand what the delta was in infrastructure and quantify that gap, and we worked with the AFN to cite the report that was published on April 9.

Public Accounts committee  Yes, we're hopeful for positive budget outcomes on April 16. We want to continue to work with first nations to bring that modern practice into place, including the monetization of investment.

Public Accounts committee  I would agree that the budget appropriation cycle is critical in closing the infrastructure gap. Like you, we eagerly await the results of April 16.

Public Accounts committee  We measure outcomes in two ways. One was cited as part of the opening remarks in terms of houses built and renovated. That number across the two departments in front of you today eclipses 30,000. The other way we measure progress is around overcrowding metrics and metrics related to household density.

Public Accounts committee  Within Indigenous Services Canada, we've applied the 2021 census data.

Public Accounts committee  It is an excellent question, and I think that 30,000 homes renovated or built is certainly a marker of success, but there is work to do. I'll point to some other success areas, and I'll reference that since 2016, first nations themselves reported an average community well-being score of 58, and in 2022 that average rose.

Public Accounts committee  We can provide the committee with more specific numbers, but I can say that in budget 2022 Indigenous Services Canada received $2.4 billion for programming related to housing remediation in first nations, and associated with that money was—

Public Accounts committee  I do. With that money, it was 77 employees. The $2.4 billion equalled 77 employees.

Public Accounts committee  It can vary greatly. Typically, these happen seasonally, in the summer season, with links into winter roads. Typically, that happens within a year.

Public Accounts committee  It varies greatly. One unit is a measure of a geospatial home, but some houses are small, some are big, some take a year and some take longer. There are some that are prefab that happen immediately. Communities are using technology like 3-D printing, which makes it happen much faster.

Public Accounts committee  We use Statistics Canada data through the census, the most recent census data.

Public Accounts committee  In terms of transfers, we don't call it devolution; we call it a transfer. In Indigenous Services Canada, it's baked into the mandate of the department as part of the legislation. Currently, we have 13 active tables around transfers. These are tables that are dictated and mandated by rights holders themselves.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you for the question. I'd probably point to partnership as a response to that question. As it was noted in the Auditor General's report, we were proud to work with the Assembly of First Nations and all first nations on the establishment of and the adherence to the 2018 Assembly of First Nations housing and infrastructure strategy.