Agriculture Committee on May 8th, 2023

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'll donate my remaining time back to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

You'll make my Christmas card list this year for that. Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Colleagues, we're pretty much at time, but I do want to get a second round in. I'm going to do what I did last time: four minutes for the Conservatives, four for the Liberals, two for the Bloc and two for the NDP.

Now it's Mr. Lehoux or Mr. Gourde.

You have the floor for four minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Roy, we talked about the difficulties associated with slaughterhouses in Quebec, and it's the same thing in Ontario. The concentration of processing plants in Canada has led to the situations we are seeing now. Do you think it's a regulatory issue?

Is it Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, through the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, that makes it difficult to start a slaughterhouse?

[René Roy]

There is certainly a regulatory factor that makes it more difficult. On the other hand, when there are business combinations or interest in acquisitions, the transactions must be well examined. Mr. Duval raised this point. It needs to be considered because you can't compare food to industrial goods. It is strategic. We need food as a society. Moreover, we export it. We have to look at this with a much more strategic eye than with industrial goods.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

You work with living resources. You can't just go to the plant in the morning and turn the key in the lock to get the plant up and running. This closure will have a big impact on producers. It's understandable that the plant won't reopen tomorrow morning and you need to find new markets. I hope that you are working closely with the processors, but also with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada to find new markets. However, perhaps we should avoid having them all concentrated in the same countries and try to diversify them.

I would like to hear your views on the ability to diversify export markets and the issue of non-tariff barriers. How can the government ask another country not to put this or that barrier in place? It's a bit complicated.

[René Roy]

As far as non-tariff barriers are concerned, if countries are capable of using them, we are capable of using them too. It's just a matter of giving them their money's worth. I'm not saying that we have to make a culture of it, but there are signals that have to be sent to countries that should be good business partners, like the European countries.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

My question is somewhat related to the agreements that have already been signed, among other things. You have experience in this area.

[René Roy]

That's true for Europe. There was also an agreement recently reached with the United Kingdom. We are not satisfied with this exchange, because we will not have access to that.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

What work are you doing at the Canadian Pork Council to find new foreign markets?

I would also like you to tell us a little about the distress experienced by producers everywhere. We experience it very regularly. You mentioned the suicides that have taken place in recent months.

[René Roy]

In terms of access to foreign markets, thanks to Canada Pork, we can promote our products outside Canada. We use this service a lot.

As producers, we present files to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. So we are very active in this area. Obviously, we can't put all our eggs in one basket — or all our bacon, I should say in our case. We have to diversify our markets.

The psychological distress is real. We're talking about cases of suicide, but there's also a whole range of uncertainties. People will not take over in our region, even though they were destined to do so and studied in this field. Others have had depressions and have not recovered after six months. It's a human tragedy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Roy and Mr. Lehoux.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who are with us.

We understand the concerns raised by Mr. MacGregor, particularly with respect to the lack of processing capacity, as well as the other concerns that have been raised.

Mr. Roy, you talk about market diversification, and I agree with that, but how can we take advantage of those markets if we don't have the processing capacity? Do we have to go to other markets if there is no room for our processing sector to grow?

[René Roy]

We can also diversify our markets by offering a different type of product. There are various ways to do that. We have done it by exporting pork to Japan, for example, but we can also move into the secondary processing sector. If we do quality research and are able to develop interesting products for our domestic market or for the international market, we will find markets that are not occupied. This is a diversification that we are able to do.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Very well.

I want to talk a little bit about the relationship between the producer associations and the processor associations. Mr. Schwindt mentioned something about that.

I know you have a joint plan in Quebec. Is that a model that seems to work? I was surprised to hear Mr. Schwindt say that it would take government intervention to get these conversations going and to get a plan in place.

Mr. Roy, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. Mr. Duval can also intervene if he wishes.

[René Roy]

I will try to be brief.

We have to work together, and we are already doing so with the Canadian Meat Council. We can only meet the challenges if we work together. When it comes to negotiations, it is the provincial organizations that are leading them, especially in Quebec. I'll let Mr. Duval speak to that. Mr. Schwindt will be able to talk about the situation in Ontario.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Duval, you have 30 seconds to answer, because I also want to give Mr. Schwindt the opportunity to speak.

In general terms, how does the Quebec joint hog producers' plan help producers?

[David Duval]

This plan is unique in Canada, and even in America. It allows us to have farms on a human scale and families who work there and who can establish a succession. We have real negotiating power. The most difficult part was the fact that a processor had a monopoly in Quebec. From the moment he closed his doors, there were no negotiations. Before that, it was much easier.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you. I think, to use your words, maybe you could use some government help to facilitate some discussions between producers and the processing sector. I'm sure you are aware that in Quebec they have put a plan in place and the government has put legislation in place.

Is that something you are asking for in Ontario?

[Eric Schwindt]

We're not seeking an arrangement like that, no. What I'm talking about is another Conestoga, like what Mr. Louis talked about. There's a group in Ontario called Next Gen, a group of producers who want to come together and invest in processing. They see the need, but they also understand that they don't have the expertise in marketing the pork, so can we bring experts or companies that are good at marketing pork together with the producers who have the pork and can guarantee the supply, together and make a venture of some sort?

That's where I see government having a role in facilitating those conversations, because they are hard conversations.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I look forward to talking about this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Thank you, Mr. Schwindt.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Duval and Mr. Roy, should we be aiming for a model of small regional slaughterhouses, which would be decentralized? They could even be mobile slaughterhouses.

What do you think about that? I would ask you to be brief, because we don't have much time left.

[David Duval]

All models can be good, as long as they produce wealth in various places in Quebec. There is no single model for large slaughterhouses. We do things differently in Quebec than elsewhere in Canada. In the Maritimes, everyone in the sector is also under tremendous stress right now. If they had the ability to process their meat, they would certainly be willing to do so.

For our part, we are open to the idea of getting resources, skilled people, to get us there. I am not at all closed to the idea of adopting such a model.

[René Roy]

Yes, there is an opportunity. It is diversity that can help our industry. A small abattoir can become a medium-sized abattoir overnight.

The Government of Canada can help us in the processing sector and it can help producers through this crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

I thank all the witnesses for their testimony. We know it's a very difficult time for all hog producers right now.

Colleagues, that ends our second panel. Thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you again to our witnesses.

There was some conversation on going in camera to have a conversation on what will be in the letter. Given the time constraints right now on our translators, we are going to be meeting on Wednesday when we intend to go in camera to study food price inflation. I'm going to make the decision, as your chair, that this is when we will re-evaluate that. It will also give us as members some time to contemplate what we've heard here today and how we might craft the letter accordingly.

Unless there's anything else, I'm going to say the meeting is adjourned and good night to you all. Thank you.