National Defence Committee on April 29th, 2024

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I have another question in terms of how we don't have a lot of capacity when it comes to launch. I know that we've talked about partners and stuff. Talk to us about whether we should be trying to look at the ability to launch and do more of these things in the future, or is that not cost-effective, and we should just continue to work with our partners on that?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

As you are probably aware, there are several commercial entities in Canada that are trying to establish commercial launch capabilities in Canada. It falls under the mandate of Department of Transport. We are providing expert support to the Department of Transport related to launch activities, but they would be better positioned to answer to those questions.

[Maja Djukic]

It is a a growing space sector domain. For Canada to have domestic capabilities to launch would complete the spectrum of capabilities that we have in Canada.

The Canadian Space Agency usually collaborates with international partners on our missions. That includes the launch of our assets into space. At this point in time, we're using other available sources, but should there be a domestic launch capability, it would certainly position the Canadian space sector to take a good share of that growing market.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

To your point, you said that you work with a number of Canadian companies right now. How far off would you say that is? Is this a possibility in the short term, or is it in the distant future?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

I would not speculate on behalf of commercial entities, but there are very solid cases in Canada that have good chances for success.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you.

I have only about a minute left. You guys talk about threat assessments as part of what you guys do, or at least that you happen to be aware of. If satellites were taken out in terms of communication for our country, what type of backups or redundancies do we have and how would that leave Canadians should there be an issue in terms of a compromise regarding some of the things that you guys are looking after?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

Being a Canadian space agency, we are concerned more with making sure that we are not denied those capabilities in space. That means resilience. That means building partnerships that can supplement our assets. Replacing space capability with other capabilities falls within the responsibilities of other government departments with which we are working very closely, and they would be better positioned to answer that question.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Okay. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Allison.

Ms. Lalonde, you have four minutes, please.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Through you, we briefly touched on the mission of Artemis. We also spoke—and my colleague did speak—about Russia and China not being signatories to an accord. I would like to reflect on Canada being one of the signatories to the Artemis accords.

That was initiated by NASA regarding the exploration of space: “The principles set out in these Accords are intended to apply to civil space activities conducted by the civil space agencies of each [of the signatories].”

Section 11 specifically talks about “the deconfliction of space activities”. That section speaks primarily to this and states:

The Signatories commit to seek to refrain from any intentional actions that may create harmful interference with each other's use of outer space in their activities under these Accords.

I would like to hear from you in explaining the importance of the Artemis accords in ensuring that the space domain is more predictable and more secure.

[Maja Djukic]

The Artemis accords are a set of high-level principles established originally by NASA, as you pointed out, with the support of a handful of agencies. Currently the numbers are growing. We are hitting 38 and 39, so they're definitely growing. The objective is to ensure sustainable operations in the lunar environment.

Through the Artemis accords, Canada is really supporting the next stage in human space exploration. The objective for many space agencies is a sustainable human presence on the moon. Going back and landing on the moon would be the first step; however, all of the big international space agencies are talking about staying there and living and working on the moon.

Setting the norms of behaviour while we are all on the moon eventually is one of the key elements. The Canadian Space Agency, as one of the early signatories, is also taking leadership in promoting the Artemis accords among the international community. Next month, we are actually hosting this community in Montreal for a workshop, where they'll talk about concrete steps to ensure some of the norms are implemented in the way you were describing, including deconfliction of activities on the surface of the moon and how that would work. They'll be working through some of those questions during the workshop.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

This seems like a lot of work. From a transparency perspective, how important is it that we have this open dialogue among the most countries possible, to ensure what would happen if—actually not if, but when—we land and we decide to inhabit the moon and stay on it? What's the importance of that transparency aspect?

[Maja Djukic]

It's going to be critical if many nations—not a select few, as was the case with the international space station—are to work and live together on a planetary body.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have one and a half minutes, Ms. Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Djukic, my question will somewhat echo what Ms. Lalonde said. We seem to be in a kind of space race 2.0. You've already talked about what's being done in terms of a presence on the moon, but beyond that, what are the next targets? What are the next goals of the world's various countries in terms of space exploration? Can you give us an overview?

[Maja Djukic]

Mr. Chair, that speaks to the question of inspiration, knowledge and understanding of our universe, and really through that an understanding of who we are and where we come from.

The moon is the closest to us at the moment. It's not the only destination. It's one step towards the next stage of human exploration, which is Mars. You will appreciate that going to Mars would be, from a technological perspective, far more complicated, and such a trip would include serious effects on the human body. Making these calculated steps over time will help us to understand the impacts of space. It's a really harsh environment. It will also help us prepare better for the next stage in terms of travel to deep space.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have one and a half minutes, Ms. Mathyssen.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Further to that, we talked a lot—and I think you mentioned it too—about the commercial data, the commercialization of space and that potential private interest in space. In all the things that states and nations are trying to achieve in that exploration, in ensuring that we keep science and inspiration at the heart of it, how do we protect that exploration and ensure that monetization doesn't come into play when it requires a lot of money to get there?

[Maja Djukic]

Commercialization of investments in space is actually one of the Canadian Space Agency's responsibilities under our mandate and the act. We don't object to the commercialization of these investments.

I'll give you some good examples.

Through advancement in our robotic capabilities, we've advanced certain technologies that are used on earth. Very precise robotic medical technologies used in breast cancer detection came out of investment into the Canadarm. There are similar investments in science that have translated into improvements for life on earth.

In that sense, we make it part of our mission to seek out both technologies and areas of research that have potential application for life on earth. Currently, as part of the investments in our space exploration technologies and knowledge, we're looking at health-focused and food-focused technologies.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Djukic.

Mr. Bezan, you have four minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of our witnesses for being here.

Just so I'm clear on this, the Canadian Space Agency is the lead agency in approving any Canadian government assets that are going to be put into space. Is that correct?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

It's civil space. We are responsible for the coordination and acquisition of assets for civil space Canadian programs.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

If you're just on the coordinating side, what is the lead agency responsible for the replacement of the RADARSAT Constellation Mission?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

It's a very good question. The Canadian Space Agency is responsible. We received funding in 2023 for the RADARSAT+ program Maja Djukic mentioned in the introductory remarks and we are implementing the RADARSAT+ program. Nevertheless, there is a program that the Department of National Defence would be better positioned to talk about.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

How many of the assets that the CSA is currently working on are multi-purpose, in that they are there for the Government of Canada, for supporting civilian infrastructure like communications and for providing services to the Department of National Defence?