Official Languages Committee on April 18th, 2024

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Perfect.

Mr. Donovan and Ms. O'Donnell, let's get back to university funding. The fact that you have much more funding in proportion to the demographic weight of anglophones means that, in Montreal, especially, many francophones and allophones attend an anglophone university. It's not true that this is a zero‑sum game. Ultimately, the more funding and spaces available at anglophone universities, relative to francophone universities, the more people have no choice but to attend anglophone universities.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

The next questions will be asked by the NDP member.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Ms. Bouffard, as the president of Université de Saint‑Boniface, you are well known and highly respected in Manitoba.

The purpose of the committee's study is to provide the federal government with clear recommendations. We know that the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, or ACUFC, talked about how francophone educational institutions need stable, predictable and adequate funding. The association referred to the $80 million it had asked the federal government for in 2021. We have yet to see the federal government make such an investment, however.

Université de Saint‑Boniface is part of the ACUFC, so can you talk about what that $80 million would mean for your university? What would stable, predictable and adequate funding mean for you?

[Sophie Bouffard]

Thank you.

Yes, that funding is vital in order to truly be competitive and meet the needs of Franco-Manitobans and those who choose French immersion programs.

To give you an idea, I can tell you that, over the past six years, enrolment in the school system has gone up 1.4%. Compare that with 2.4% for the Franco-Manitoban school division, or FMSD, and 9.8% for French immersion enrolment. Nevertheless, the dropout rate between kindergarten and grade 12 is pretty high, and the same goes for the period between grade 12 and Université de Saint‑Boniface.

We have to build that French education continuum, right up to Université de Saint‑Boniface, which needs to be the target destination. We need to be able to work with the school boards on linguistic security issues, among other things. We have to work on a host of issues.

I know you've talked a lot about the teacher shortage. In Manitoba, Université de Saint‑Boniface is responsible for training francophone teachers, and we've actually increased that capacity in the past few years. Three years ago, the university received a one-time federal investment of $350,000 to support a cohort of up to 70 students, up from the 35 or 40 we had. Then the province stepped in with funding, and in the past two years, the number of students is up to 90. The university received recurrent funding from the province to achieve that target.

Federal funding is often leveraged, but there are other areas we need to focus on. This falls under the official languages banner, and that's why we need federal funding.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for bringing up the labour shortage. We are feeling it every day here, in Manitoba. I can attest to that as a parent whose children attend an FMSD school. I also see it in the immersion school system, which I'm a graduate of, by the way.

We're aware of the great work Université de Saint‑Boniface is doing.

How important is it for the federal government to do something to address the labour shortage in education? We all know that education is a provincial responsibility, but we can't deny or ignore the significant labour shortage in francophone communities. Do you think the federal government needs to get involved? Do you think it should invest in post-secondary institutions that train teachers?

[Sophie Bouffard]

As I see it, the two levels of government need to work hand in hand to find solutions and build that capacity. For us, early childhood education is another important piece. Right now, the province and the federal government have come together to give us the funding we need to enhance our capacity. I think you're right. Talking to both levels of government and being at the table to provide the information is important.

We are losing a lot of our young people. To follow up on the statistics I gave you earlier, I can tell you that barely 8% of students who start their education in French, at the kindergarten level, stay in the French system until their post-secondary schooling is complete. That's a huge loss, representing millions of dollars. We did a little study, and when students leave the FMSD or immersion system between kindergarten and grade 12, it equates to $97 million in lost value annually. Between grade 12 and Université de Saint‑Boniface, we are losing roughly $121 million a year. When you consider that the university has an annual budget of $39 million, it doesn't take long to realize that a few extra million would help us take measures that make a real difference. We could ensure that continuity by training more teachers, educators and teaching assistants.

It's also important to look beyond education, because French-language health care services need support, and the list goes on.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Quickly, I'd like to talk about the role of international students at Université de Saint‑Boniface. How vital is their role, and what message do you have for the federal government when it comes to international students?

[Sophie Bouffard]

We've really gone through the wringer these past few months.

International students make up 21% of our student body. We'd like to keep the percentage at that maximum level for a variety of reasons. International students are important. They contribute to the diversity and overall international experience of our students in Manitoba. They also play an important role because they support the community's immigration efforts. We know that many of our foreign graduates stay in the community after they finish school—nearly 80%.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Bouffard.

We are now beginning the second round.

Go ahead, Mrs. Kusie. You have five minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

I always have to start by pointing out any way in which I share a connection with the witnesses. I want you to know that my mother-in-law is from St. Boniface, her mother is from France and her father is from Belgium. Their last name is Windels. All that to say that my husband has roots in St. Boniface. I always think it's important to show that many Canadians across the country have francophone roots. I'm from Alberta, and I do.

Ms. Bouffard, the francophone community has its own culture, and 3.7% of Manitoba's population speaks French as their mother tongue. Does Université de Saint‑Boniface build connections with the community when developing its French programs? What is your university's relationship with the francophone community?

[Sophie Bouffard]

I would say it's very much driven by synergy. For example, Université de Saint‑Boniface created a social work program in response to a request that came from the community. Our nursing program came about the same way. We work closely with the community.

We've even set up a round table, which, as far as I know, doesn't exist anywhere else. It has numerous representatives from across the education system: the FMSD, the university, immersion schools, the Fédération des parents de la francophonie manitobaine, the Conseil jeunesse provincial and the Société de la francophonie manitobaine. We sit down together and discuss our vision for education and our continuum.

I'll give you another example. The university worked with the federation and the Economic Development Council for Manitoba Bilingual Municipalities on ways to increase the availability of child care and train more early childhood educators. Working hand in hand like that has proven successful.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Those are great examples.

I know we've already talked about international students, but I'd like to know more about where your other students come from. How many are from Manitoba's francophone community?

[Sophie Bouffard]

About 33% of our students, so a third, are from FMSD schools and another third come from immersion schools. In addition, 10% of our students are enrolled in a master's program and 21% are from other countries.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Very good. Thank you.

How many anglophones like me do you have? I'm talking about English speakers looking to better their French skills.

[Sophie Bouffard]

I would say that's the case for both groups, but since you're basically talking about students from immersion schools, it's about a third of our student body. However, the vast majority of the classes we offer through our continuing education division, including to public servants, revolve around French learning. As I said, we have more than 4,000 students in that division.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

That's great.

Are you confident that the program will continue to be successful and help Canadians in Manitoba improve their French proficiency?

[Sophie Bouffard]

Yes, absolutely. That's our mandate.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes, of course.

How much has the programming grown since it was created?

[Sophie Bouffard]

Which programming do you mean?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'm talking about your programming.

[Sophie Bouffard]

Université de Saint‑Boniface's roots go back to 1818, so we have a very long history. In the past few years, our programming has grown because we were allowed to increase our education capacity and the number of spots we had. We were able to enhance our capacity in both of our nursing programs, as well as in early childhood education. We created a teaching assistant program, as well. Now we have other things in the works. We shall see what the future holds.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

We've already talked a lot about provincial and federal funding, but what kind of funding do you need to expand those programs and accommodate a larger number of francophone students?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

You have 30 seconds left, Mrs. Kusie.

[Sophie Bouffard]

That's a big question.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes.