Evidence of meeting #104 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was theft.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kelly Aimers  Chief Actuary, Insurance Corporation of British Columbia
Shabnem Afzal  Director, Road Safety, Insurance Corporation of British Columbia
Ian Jack  Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Automobile Association
Allan Gray  President and Chief Executive Officer, Halifax Port Authority
Mitra Mirhassani  Professor, SHIELD Automotive Cybersecurity Centre of Excellence

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start with ICBC.

It's great to see some fellow British Columbians join us at committee and provide our west coast perspective on this issue.

I just want to talk a little bit about the bait car program, because that did have remarkable success when it was first introduced. I can remember at the time it seemed like the B.C. government was actively trolling car thieves, daring them to go and steal a car, knowing that a bait car was out there tempting them to be caught.

We know from the Vancouver Police Service press releases at the time that the program had remarkable success in driving down rates of auto theft.

Can you just tell us, have those rates remained fairly consistent? Is the bait car program still owning a little bit of responsibility for keeping those rates low, or is it a broader question with a lot of different things at play here? Could you just add a little bit more to that, please?

4:35 p.m.

Director, Road Safety, Insurance Corporation of British Columbia

Shabnem Afzal

There is no doubt that the bait car program is still a successful program. There are also many other aspects in terms of IMPACT, the team and how they are integrated, and different police units and police departments that are all involved in the proactive tackling of auto crime. I think the important thing here is to remember that the IMPACT program is an enhanced program in terms of fighting auto theft. We're not just relying on baseline enforcement against auto crime through the various police departments, but it's actually this concerted data-driven program across the province of B.C. Of course, bait car is part of that program, so yes, bait car is very successful. We've seen a lot of auto crime go down due to that, but there are always new tactics being employed by thieves and there's new technology in vehicles as well. It continues to have success, but in the space of the larger program, IMPACT, I think it's important to remember the integrated approach across B.C. has led to much success in this space.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I know that ICBC offers discounts on premiums for anti-theft devices on vehicles. Does ICBC have to re-examine that policy, given that thieves seem to be easily able to overcome some of the standard anti-theft devices that are part of cars that are manufactured today? Is that something the insurance industry as a whole is pressing the car manufacturers to do better on? Is that a big part of the conversation here?

4:35 p.m.

Director, Road Safety, Insurance Corporation of British Columbia

Shabnem Afzal

Well, we've actually not seen the same increase in auto theft in B.C. so—I hate to say this—we still have quite low rates compared to the rest of the country. As I said, there are a number of different variables involved here, so we haven't seen fit to change our incentives in terms of anti-theft devices yet. Hopefully, that remains the case and we continue to see a decline in auto theft...over the last five years. As Kelly was saying earlier, we've seen a recent decline as well, just from last year, so we have not been thinking about changing any of our insurance premiums as a result.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I'm going to turn to CAA for my last two minutes. I certainly appreciate the times BCAA has been there to help me on the side of the road, so we definitely know the value of your organization. Coming off that conversation, when you look at insurance models in the rest of Canada, in provinces where auto theft is a growing concern, what is CAA's position on what role insurance companies can play, in their conversations with auto manufacturers, on offering discounts for anti-theft devices? If you can add a little bit more to that conversation, I think that will be helpful.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Automobile Association

Ian Jack

I'll turn to my colleague in a moment: This is what he does for a living, especially in recent months and years.

It shouldn't be up to your house insurance to take care of faulty door locks because people who build homes can't be bothered to have proper locks on the front doors. We can do our part, and we do our part—and Elliott will speak to that in just a moment—but a lot of people have to do their jobs here, I think, and not just either insurers or individuals buying their own aftermarket anti-theft devices to try to stop having their vehicle stolen.

4:40 p.m.

Elliott Silverstein

By and large I think insurance companies have tried to do a lot thus far. We've tried to really focus on the most actively stolen vehicles, which doesn't impact the entire population in terms of their policies. I think the idea about working together on that is a noble one, and I think it's one people would love to work on, but we need to get the manufacturers fully to the table. They are at the table, but they need to do more on this to actually be part of that solution. Right now, deferring it by saying it's an organized crime issue—while that is the epicentre of where it's coming from—time and again doesn't get us to the end state. We need to get to that end state as soon as we can because we can't afford, day after day, to pay out the claims we're doing.

4:40 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Automobile Association

Ian Jack

If I might just add to that, it was striking to me that at the auto summit we participated in, at a table even bigger than this one, everybody around the table said, “Mea culpa, we have something to do,” including CAA. As I said in my remarks, we need to do better consumer education. The only people at the table who took no responsibility at that time were the manufacturers.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald

Thank you.

Thank you to all of you for your testimony.

We will now suspend for a couple of minutes to enable you to leave and to get our new witnesses ready.

Thank you so much.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald

I call this meeting back to order.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses for our second panel.

In person, from the Halifax Port Authority, we have Captain Allan Gray, president and CEO; and by video conference, from SHIELD automotive cybersecurity centre of excellence, we have Mitra Mirhassani, professor.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

I now invite Captain Gray to make an opening statement.

Please go ahead.

4:45 p.m.

Captain Allan Gray President and Chief Executive Officer, Halifax Port Authority

Thank you.

We at the Port of Halifax recognize the importance of this issue and sympathize with the thousands of Canadians who have been impacted by these criminal acts. We join Canadians in our concern over the growing problem of auto theft, which has become a very sophisticated crime. Those involved are highly organized. We are committed to working with the government and other supply chain stakeholders to address this issue and broader concerns surrounding the illicit movement of goods and/or people.

Canadian port authorities are delegated with specific and limited responsibilities for port security. Therefore, ports must work closely with their partners, including local police, federal enforcement authorities and the Canada Border Services Agency to achieve security.

When it comes to illicit activity, which also includes illegal drugs and human trafficking, there is no single solution to this problem. There are many groups, and they each have a role to play in terms of enforcement and prevention. Developing a strategy that will involve all groups working together is necessary.

For many years now, I have worked closely with the International Maritime Organization, or IMO. I can tell you that port security has been on their radar for a long time. At the start of the century, ports used to be open environments, but 9/11 changed all that. The IMO developed measures designed to combat terrorism—not specifically contraband—and continued to focus on security in a holistic way. The international ship and port facility security code was adopted in 2004. Following that, the IMO continued its work on maritime security. The IMO code of practice on security in ports offers a valuable framework for developing and implementing security strategies and identifying potential risks. There is a call at IMO to broaden the scope of the ISPS code to consider organized crime. I would recommend that the Canadian representatives on IMO engage with and support this initiative.

As it relates to security and containers, I want to talk a little bit about the process of packing and moving containers through a terminal. In general around the world, and also in Canada, there is no X-ray or scanning of export boxes unless the country of destination has a security requirement for a preload scan. This is because most border controls are focused on the import of illicit materials and not the export.

Typically, a shipping container is packed at an off-site location. The paperwork is done. That includes a self-declaration of what's inside. The container is closed and marked with a customs seal. When a container arrives at a terminal by either truck or rail, the container number is matched to the booking number, the customs seal is physically checked to see that it hasn't been broken, the serial number of the seal is noted against the container and then the container is put in the stacking area for export. Neither the terminal operator nor the port authority have the right to hold or open a container unless directed by the shipper, the shipping line or the CBSA.

In terms of documentation, there is a bill of lading, which is a legal contract between the shipper and the carrier that shows ownership, and there is a cargo manifest, which lists the contents of what is claimed to be inside the box. On the manifest document, you will find words like “said to contain”, because the only one who knows for sure what is in the container is the one who packed it.

If we consider the effectiveness of scanning export boxes, if the manifest says the box contains household goods but a scan reveals a car inside, then it's reasonable that enforcement agencies know they should be inspecting the container. But if they scan a box that has a car inside, and the manifest says there is a car inside, there is no way of knowing if that car is stolen without opening the container and looking to see if the VIN matches the ownership documents. Even that check might not catch a VIN that has been tampered with.

The point is that spending a lot of money on scanners may not fix the problem, and scanning every single container may not fix the problem. What we do know is that scanning containers takes time, resources and trained people. It's simply not realistic to scan every single export container or even the majority of them.

The other gap is the port security clearance. In many other jurisdictions, security credentialling is a requirement for anyone who must access a secure area more than once in a calendar year. That's not the case in Canada. Currently, there is no consistency in maritime transport security clearance cards between different ports. Every port creates its own card. The inconsistencies make the system vulnerable to fraud. Other jurisdictions have centralized systems with standardized cards, which make it easier to detect forgery and compare a card against a centralized database.

The federal budget proposes funding for Transport Canada and the RCMP to administer a centralized transportation security clearance program, which is a positive step.

We are respectful of the fact that people are concerned about auto theft and the threat of violence in communities affected by this problem. We need a broad solution that is realistic about the level of control required to effect positive change. Relying on port security as the last line of defence may not be as effective when considering such well-organized criminals. We need to consider a more integrated approach to port security that includes all levels of government, and considers the export of drugs and other illicit goods and people.

Thank you.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald

Thank you.

Dr. Mirhassani. Go ahead, please.

4:50 p.m.

Dr. Mitra Mirhassani Professor, SHIELD Automotive Cybersecurity Centre of Excellence

Thank you.

I'm the co-director of the SHIELD automotive cybersecurity centre of excellence. This centre was established in 2020, right at the onset of the pandemic. However, we've been researching these challenges associated with automotive security and, in general, Internet of things security since 2012 or so.

We created the centre to address three key areas that we saw were lacking. Especially back in 2012, or even in 2020, when we were talking with different ranges of people, they looked at us in amazement and wondered what we were talking about when we talked about the issues surrounding automotive security. A lot of the time, it's mistaken with safety features in vehicles. They are two different challenges and issues. They're interrelated, but not exactly the same.

SHIELD is working with the automotive industry. We have partners coming to us. We can offer solutions for their immediate needs and challenges, but how many of the offered solutions they employ remains with them.

At the centre, other than offering technological solutions for the problems that are facing the industry, we offer training and education with respect to the issues and challenges auto theft has created in Canada. One of the more challenging issues in terms of security is a lack of knowledgeable people and the ability to attract young minds into this field. We are actively trying to remove the barriers in the field and allow the younger generation to come into it, as well as trying to upskill the current workforce that is in the workplace in the automotive field to be able to understand the new ecosystem of the vehicle.

As much as possible, we try to talk with policy-makers, we attend and are members of different standards committees, and we transfer our knowledge of issues that we have experienced and learned about, which will hopefully be reflected in the advanced science, standards and policies.

Going back to the issue of the biggest challenge in the automotive industry, which is a lack of talent, we currently have a very serious void in our workforce. A lot of organizations working in the automotive industry do not have people with the necessary skills, which sometimes showcases itself in the products that are coming.

However, there are newer standards being developed, and carmakers are slowly adhering to them. In July 2024, they're going to start enforcing some of the world's harmonization standards. We are hoping that there will be more investment in the training and education of students and professionals.

Unfortunately, the day that automotive cybersecurity becomes an issue will come earlier than we predicted. Our prediction was that with the rise of AI, we would have more devastation and more problems, especially with fleets of vehicles. Because auto theft is a public issue, it has created this attention to the the details related to automotive cybersecurity.

We are hoping that by working with different organizations, different institutions and the private and public sectors, we can rise to some of the challenges in this field.

Thank you for having me today.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald

Thank you, Professor Mirhassani.

Now we will move right into questioning, with Mr. Shipley for six minutes, please.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I would like to start first with Mr. Gray.

Mr. Gray, you may have touched on this, but I just want to recap.

In your experience, what percentage of shipping containers would you say the CBSA is scanning at the Port of Halifax?

4:55 p.m.

Capt Allan Gray

In the Port of Halifax, it's probably only somewhere between 3% and 5%. It's not a large volume. That's only import containers, so—

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

I'm sorry. I meant export, but I didn't say it.

4:55 p.m.

Capt Allan Gray

For export, it would be zero.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

There is absolutely zero scanning of export.

Knowing that, do you have any statistics?

Has there ever been a car successfully seized at the port?

4:55 p.m.

Capt Allan Gray

There hasn't been, that I am aware of. I have heard anecdotally that cars may have moved through the port, but I haven't seen a seizure of a vehicle in the port.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

How long have you been there, Mr. Gray?

4:55 p.m.

Capt Allan Gray

This is my fifth year at the port.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Do you think that the security clearance program administered by Transport Canada for employees working at your port is adequate for preventing the infiltration to the public sector?

5 p.m.

Capt Allan Gray

No, I don't.

Could I expand on that?

To my point, in other jurisdictions—I come from Australia, which is a similar jurisdiction—with the security cards that exist, if you have a requirement to access a security-regulated area more than once in a calendar year, then you're required to have a transport security clearance card. That means transport drivers or workers who come down to do maintenance in the place. It doesn't matter where you're from, if you have to access a security-regulated thing more than once a year, you must have a security clearance.

The other point is that the card for the Port of Montreal and the card for the Port of Halifax, whilst they will have some similarities in the information on them, are different. We can have different coloured backings and that. In other jurisdictions, they have security hologram films that can be purchased only from the government. They're put on the card and every card is identical throughout the country. It is very difficult to forge, from an organized crime point of view, because you can pick that up through the hologram systems.

We don't have that in Canada.

April 29th, 2024 / 5 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you.

My next question will be for Ms. Mirhassani.

I'd like to first just have a quick discussion.

I brought up an example of a carjacking a while ago, which happened in the Toronto area. It's maybe been misused a couple of times in this committee. I had mentioned some very young people—one as young as 11—and there were three or maybe four of them. I can't recall exactly. It's been brought up a couple of times that they were so young and yet they could get the technology and steal that vehicle. They didn't use any technology. They opened the door, pulled out the driver, beat him, stabbed him and drove away. I just want to make sure that it is clear that there was no technology used by those perpetrators.

For my next question, Mitra, we've heard from several witnesses that the age of car thieves is becoming quite young. While we know that many of these thieves obtain stolen vehicles through violent means such as carjacking and home invasions, I'm wondering how easy it is for a young person to obtain...and learn how to steal a vehicle other than, as I said, pulling a driver out and driving away.