Fisheries Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

We have to raise awareness among people in the communities, which is why it is important to make regulations and work cooperatively.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Look, I have limited time, Minister.

The thing is that the illegal poaching that's happened over the years, for which your department has refused to enforce the law, has resulted in criminal elements from the United States, Quebec and Ontario coming here and doing it. They're still doing it, and you're not approaching it. The same official at C and P said the same thing at the beginning of July: They had enough resources to enforce the poaching in the lobster fishery, yet poaching in the lobster fishery went on all summer, with virtually no arrests.

Now, going back to the elver fishery, it was so bad that on the only river that DFO does science on, the East River in Chester, DFO pulled all the science. It was too dangerous. They wouldn't even protect that river to do the science. I don't want to hear this department come out and say, “We can't hold an elver fishery next year, because we didn't do the science this year; we didn't have the courage to protect the river that we do the science on.” It wasn't—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. You've gone a fair bit over on your time.

I want to give it to Mr. Hanley to close out this first hour of questioning.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I am very happy to have you here at our committee. I also want to welcome the senior officials. It is particularly important to have you here, given the importance of the fisheries for northern and indigenous communities, like the salmon fishery in the Yukon River and its tributaries.

Given the importance of northern fisheries to our northern Yukon communities, I want to focus on Yukon River salmon.

As you may know, Yukon River salmon are in dire straits. Earlier this fall, at the Whitehorse fish ladder, just over 150 salmon made the ladder by mid-September. The 10-year average is 850 for the same period.

Also, according to the DFO Yukon River salmon report:

Similar to previous years, 2019 to 2022, the return of Canadian-origin Chinook salmon will not be large enough to achieve the spawning escapement objectives, nor provide for harvest opportunities in either Alaska or Canada.

I want to ask you where Yukon salmon lie among the priorities of your mandate, first of all.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Salmon has symbolic value on the west coast. It is definitely part of my mandate and my priorities. An entire segment of the economy revolves around salmon.

Earlier, the cultural aspect was mentioned in connection with the east coast, but it is the same thing on the west coast. I think it is important to work very closely with the people in the sector and with the United States. We are hearing a lot of things right now. It is not easy.

We have invested almost $700 million in a Pacific salmon strategy. We are going to continue to work together to protect the species. As we know, there are droughts on the west coast and the salmon sometimes have trouble getting up the rivers. So we need to work in tandem and cooperatively to protect the resource.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I'm glad you mentioned two elements of what I was going to pose as further questions.

One is on the Pacific salmon strategy initiative. I'd love a quick update from either you or Ms. Gibbons on the implementation of the PSSI, particularly as it relates to the Yukon part of the funding.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I am going to hand the floor to the deputy minister.

[Annette Gibbons]

I don't have a breakdown here. I can get you more on the activities in Yukon, but it's a very comprehensive strategy with a number of different pieces.

We have habitat restoration as a very important piece. We're working with all kinds of groups to do that. There's obviously a very important indigenous component and partnerships with indigenous communities, given their interest in salmon. It's the lifeblood for communities.

Work on harvest transformation.... There's a lot of interest, obviously, in recreational salmon fishing. How do we work with that? We have hatcheries. We are building new hatcheries. There are a whole bunch of different pieces.

We have been accelerating the spending of the $700 million the minister just mentioned. I think we spent about $74 million in the first couple of years. This year we are spending roughly the same. It is picking up at a very significant pace as we get the various building blocks in place.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. That's good.

The other part you mentioned is our relationship with the United States. In previous discussions with Minister Murray, we supported the idea of engagement with our U.S. friends on the state of salmon for the Pacific and northern species and the importance of refreshing our joint initiative.

I'm wondering whether you will continue to support a formal engagement that will bring both federal governments together, as well as the relative indigenous local, state and territorial governments, to talk about this crisis and look jointly for solutions.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I really want to reassure my colleague, since we are going to continue working closely with the United States. We will win together, but we can also lose together. Of course, I want us to win together. It will therefore be important for everyone to pull together. We are going to continue working closely with partners and people in the industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

Thank you to the minister.

That concludes our first hour of testimony.

We'll suspend for a quick moment.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to request one more minute so I can answer the question Mr. Perkins asked me earlier.

I just want to remind him that it was his government, the Harper government, that made the budget cuts at Fisheries and Oceans Canada in relation to unauthorized fishing. Myself, I will be happy to continue investing in this department to protect the industry.

Thank you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have a point of order.

I don't know why, when the minister's time is up, Mr. Chair, you're letting her go on with a “nothing to do with anything” response to something, if I can't respond to her.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Wait a moment, please. She asked whether she could respond to your earlier question.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I didn't ask a question about the Harper government, so it was out of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Nobody said no. I don't control the questions and answers. It's no different in the House of Commons—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, you cut her off. She's now five minutes after her time. I would ask that, in the future, we stick to the allotted time, as posted in the notice of meeting.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll start the meeting on time, as well, in the future.

Minister, again, thank you.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I wanted to have the time for you, for the answer.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That wasn't an answer to anything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll suspend for a couple of moments now, to let the officials join the table as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we'll try to get started.

Welcome, Mr. Adam Burns, assistant deputy minister, programs sector, and Niall O'Dea, senior assistant deputy minister, strategic policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I don't think there's another opening statement. We'll go right to questioning.

I believe Mr. Epp is up for six minutes or less.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the officials for being here.

I have three short questions to start with.

First of all, who speaks for Canada at the Great Lakes Fishery Commission table?

[Annette Gibbons]

We have a commissioner there, a federal representative.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

The four Canadian commissioners—