Fisheries Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Right.

This year there was a reopening of zones 4T5 and 4T7 for halibut. Did you guys agree that these zones should be reopened?

[Annette Gibbons]

Does your question relate to debates that take place within the department?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Did your office agree with Ottawa about the reopening of these two fishing areas?

[Annette Gibbons]

The role of the public service is to give advice, and once a decision is made, we accept it.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Burns, did you agree with reopening areas 4T5 and 4T7 for halibut?

[Annette Gibbons]

The answer is going to be the same as mine.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am asking you these questions because you requested studies, studies that lasted almost three years, regarding reopening these two fishing areas.

This year, the recommendation from the Moncton local office, from your officials, from your scientists, after more than two years' study of those two areas, was to reopen them. Unfortunately, at the last minute, your offices recommended not following the recommendation made at the local level and closing those areas. It was necessary to step in and see what the reasons were for that decision. The reason was that there might have been too much bycatch in those two fishing areas, even though the season had just ended and there had been almost no such catches.

Ms. Gibbons and Mr. Burns, could you tell me why, every time decisions are made in Ottawa concerning these regions, there always seems to be a problem and second thoughts, even after your own scientists and officials have made recommendations that supported reopening, when you seemed to be opposed to it?

How do you want the industry to have confidence in decisions like that?

I would like to get an answer to my question, please.

[Annette Gibbons]

There is only one department. We have experts in the regions and here in Ottawa in the national offices. We take all sorts of factors into consideration in our decisions about giving advice.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ms. Gibbons, your own report recommended, three years ago, that these fisheries be reopened. Why was it different at your level? I am talking about your own employees.

[Annette Gibbons]

All our employees, in the regions and in Ottawa, compose a single entity. There are no divisions. It is not as if the region was a separate department that makes recommendations.

The debate is not over as long as we have not had discussions with everyone who has expertise on the issues. It is that way in all departments, about all issues.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Unfortunately, I do not agree with the answer you have just given me.

In any event, I am going to move on to another question.

Mr. Pelletier, I am pleased to see you again.

On the subject of ice-breaking on the bay in the region, are you ready now for the next snow crab season? Have there already been discussions with the associations so the next season can be started quickly? Are the contracts already in place in order to have the tools that are necessary for reopening our ports?

[Mario Pelletier, Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard]

Thank you for the question.

I can't tell you whether the contracts are in place, but we are as ready as we were in previous years. The Atlantic region, which manages this sector, has all the mechanisms in place to make sure we are ready to do the ice-breaking when the time is right.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Pelletier.

I hope we will be ready this year.

Is my speaking time up, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, you've gone a little over.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, I am going to come back to the comments my colleague Mr. Cormier made about the difficulty there sometimes is in reconciling various opinions, whether they come from your employees or from fishers who have direct knowledge, in real time, of what is happening on the ground. It is often difficult to understand why the recommendations that make it to your offices in Ottawa are not given the weight they deserve.

There was a study about foreign investment not very long ago. Some witnesses told us that fishing know-how was in danger because there were foreign investments that were impoverishing the fisheries sector and there was no new generation to take over.

How do you plan to ensure that there is a next generation and preserve fishing know-how, that is, transmission of skills from generation to generation and preservation of economic interests in this economic sector? No one wants to pay to work. Everyone wants to earn a living.

We have also heard about community licences, which are obviously intended more for indigenous people. Some people would like non-indigenous people to also be able to obtain more community licences, which would preserve those interests and maintain economic equilibrium in the local communities.

I would like to hear your comments on this subject.

[Annette Gibbons]

Thank you for the question.

The next generation is a very important question. I previously worked in the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, and this was also an important question for Ms. Bibeau who was then the minister for that department. For example, there was talk of how expensive it was to purchase a dairy farm. In fact, it is very expensive to buy farms in general.

In some fishing sectors, the price of licences is really very high these days. It is hard for a young person or anyone else who wants to work in this sector to take on those kinds of costs.

The subject is of considerable concern to the minister. She discussed it with us when she came to the department. She is looking for new ideas and she also wants to hear suggestions from people outside the department. She is certainly going to be giving advice in this regard.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

The discussions concerning community licences—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens. You're right on time. You're the first one today.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, perhaps you can clarify something around the Dene Nation and their coordinated efforts with the Canadian Coast Guard and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Specifically, are you aware that until April this year, the department was funding a fisheries coordinator with the Dene Nation, and that your department has since cut funding for this important role?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can't speak to that specific funding. We have programs that would support that kind of function in a first nation. We try to apportion that funding so that all communities interested in having access are able to access some funds.

I'm not sure about the specifics of that. We can come back to you on that, if you like.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Yes, please. I have concerns that have been brought forward, given the importance of the role of fostering local knowledge and having people on the ground to conduct DFO work with the community and build trust with the communities they rely on. It seems problematic, to say the least, that this role would be eliminated without thorough consultation with the Dene first nations.

My other question, Ms. Gibbons, is around sea lice in open-net fish farms.

Building on my previous questions to the minister, we know that sea lice are highly problematic and especially dangerous to migrating juvenile salmon, which are most vulnerable. Unfortunately, we saw Cermaq open-net salmon farms in Bawden Point granted a near 50% biomass increase in 2022, despite evidence, which has been brought to my attention, that it may have been in breach of its licence conditions due to excessive sea lice.

Could you please answer whether Cermaq has ever breached licence conditions? Has any licence issued to Cermaq ever been amended to allow for higher lice limits, and has it ever been fined or otherwise sanctioned for breaching lice limits?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can come back to you with details as appropriate. What I would say on sea lice more generally, for the committee's interest, is that we are starting a full scientific assessment process of the impacts of sea lice on aquaculture in B.C.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Bragdon for five minutes or less, please.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

No. It's Mr. Small.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Oh. You switched it up.

Okay. It's over to Mr. Small for five minutes or less, please.