Evidence of meeting #99 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today.
Ms. O'Gorman, as of today, February 13, 2024, do you have trust in those to whom you've delegated authority in your agency?
5:25 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm in a “trust but verify” frame of mind.
I have, since I arrived, been putting in place some of that which was missing. In fact, there were many excellent audit recommendations, not from the Auditor General but internally, that had not been implemented; 53 of those have been implemented.
There is catching-up to do. I'm putting the pieces in place. I'm responding very specifically to the recommendations of the Auditor General and the procurement ombud, and I suspect my own internal audit will come up with more recommendations.
We're not there yet. We've put some things in place, some “belt and suspenders” in certain cases that I hope one day will no longer be needed.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
The lack of a clear “yes” is troubling.
When did you receive the preliminary report from the Auditor General?
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I received the principal draft on August 3, and then I received the second DM draft in December.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Between December and now, have there been any disciplinary measures within your department related to the draft you've seen from the Auditor General?
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I'll just complete my answer. I also received a draft on the 18th.
Your question is whether I have undertaken any—
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Have there been any disciplinary measures within your agency since you saw the drafts of the Auditor General's report?
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Okay.
Has any additional information been provided to the RCMP from CBSA since you saw the draft reports from the Auditor General?
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I am not interfacing with the RCMP, and the people who are are not reporting to me about their interface with the RCMP. If the RCMP wants information, and they may well have sought it, that is not being reported to me.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Earlier this week, we received a letter from you dated February 7, 2024. Are you aware of this letter? It's signed by you. It refers to Deloitte being in the “penalty box”.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Yes. You sent a letter to this committee, signed by you—
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Is this a letter that's been provided to the public accounts committee?
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Yes. It's dated February 7. We received it yesterday from our clerk.
Are you aware of this letter? In it, you state:
The CBSA is unable to validate testimony provided to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates on November 7, 2023, that Deloitte was in the “penalty box” in the spring of 2020.
Are you not aware of this letter?
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We are unable to validate that. The person who was alleged to have said it, my predecessor, also addressed that at committee.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
So you stand by that, that you're unable to validate that Deloitte was in the “penalty box”.
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I have seen no evidence of that statement, and I wasn't around—
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
You've seen no evidence because, obviously, emails and documents are non-existent.
Can you tell me with certainty that, among senior executives at CBSA, there wasn't an unwritten, spoken word that Deloitte was in the “penalty box”?
5:30 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Since I have been in this position, absolutely not, I have seen no evidence that it existed before, and I would point to the testimony of the person alleged to have said it.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Whose emails were also deleted....
Moving on, paragraph 1.74 of this document from the Auditor General expresses grave security concerns that the “cybersecurity assessments” were undertaken by people without “a reliability security status”. Can you confirm to me today that all contractors and subcontractors across CBSA have the requisite security clearance?
