Sandra Hassan Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I have one last question.

How did you arrive at the $2,400 maximum annual benefit?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Mr. Chair, again, it's important to recognize that we put forward for the first time ever $6.1 billion in a statutory benefit that is going to support more than 600,000 working-age persons with disabilities. It's important to also recognize, just like any progressive—

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Madam Minister, please explain to us how you arrived at that amount. You should be able to explain to us how you came up with the $2,400 a year maximum benefit.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Mr. Chair, as I was mentioning, it's important to recognize for any progressive benefits that our government has put forward, whether it is old age security, the guaranteed income supplement or the Canada child benefit, that all these benefits are meant to be enhanced. We certainly recognize there's more to do, but we won't do that unless we know the provinces and territories won't claw back any of the benefits that we put forward. I think that is really very important. This is an income supplement, not an income replacement, and we're absolutely committed to doing that work.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Madam Zarrillo, you have six minutes, please.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the minister.

I'm very pleased that you're here because you really are accountable for the decisions that were made in the budget, and we want to get to the bottom of it today.

Minister, the budget announcement on the Canada disability benefit proved that your government ignored the input of persons with disabilities and have decided to legislate poverty for persons with disabilities rather than reduce it.

People with disabilities called for an adequate benefit, one that was easy to access, one not subject to clawbacks from provinces and territories. Your government has chosen to do none of these things. This government never seems to run out of money for handouts to giant corporations and rich CEOs, but when it comes to the critical support promised to people living with disabilities, suddenly the offer is crumbs. Two hundred dollars a month is offensive, and you've seen the response from Canadians. They are not happy.

Why did you choose to ignore years of input from the disability community and bring forward a $200 benefit that is tied to the inaccessible disability tax credit?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Mr. Chair, again, I think it's important to recognize that we have, as a government, put forward for the first time ever a Canada disability benefit so that individuals with disabilities will be able to actually get that support. We're going to be able to support some of the lowest-income individuals who are living in poverty.

I'll be the first one to say, and I think we all recognize, that there's a lot more work to do, but this is a first significant step that we have put forward, and just like all the progressive benefits that our government has put forward in the past, it is meant to be expanded. These measures are meant to be enhanced. That's exactly what we're committed to, but we have to do it responsibly. We have to do it—

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Minister. I'm sorry, but I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to go to my next question.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

—in a way that provinces and territories do not claw back any of the benefits that—

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

The NDP secured amendments to Bill C-22 so that this legislation would lift persons with disabilities out of poverty. Why are you okay with an inadequate $200 a month top-up, which violates the CRPD and is barely enough to buy groceries? Does your government think that people living with disabilities are worth only $200 a month?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Again, I think it's important to recognize that this is a first step but a very significant step. It is $6 billion, the single largest budget item that was put forward last week, or two weeks ago, perhaps. It is not insignificant, with a tax-free amount of $2,400 per year for individuals who are going through extremely tough times. That is not insignificant.

I'll be the first one to say that we all recognize that there's more to do. I don't think there's anyone—I hope—at this table who doesn't recognize that there's more to do, but we have to do it in a responsible way to make sure that people with disabilities—

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Minister. I'm just going to have one more question that I want to ask you. You talked about—

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

I think it's important for me to answer the question that you've asked me, Madam Zarrillo.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Madam Zarrillo has the floor.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

As you talk about doing it in a responsible way, the CRA has confirmed that the disability tax credit, the DTC, cannot be correlated on a one-on-one basis to a person with a disability. It doesn't work for the CDB, the Canada disability benefit, because, of the almost one million DTC claimants, only 8% have income below the poverty line. Why is the government leaving behind the majority of people with a disability who are in poverty, and will you remove the barriers to accessing the CDB?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

I think it's important to recognize also that there are 13 different mechanisms through which different provinces and territories give and deliver benefits within their own jurisdictions. The DTC is a way for Canadians with disabilities to ensure that they get the support. More than 600,000 individuals with disabilities will be able to ensure that they get this benefit.

It's also important that in fact we have put forward additional dollars in the budget to ensure that we have a barrier-free mechanism to ensure more people can access the disability tax credit, which in fact is also a mechanism for some provinces and territories, like other benefits such as dental, the Canada child disability benefit and some of the other benefits the federal government provides that these individuals receive.

I think it's really important that we have consistency across the country to make sure some of the most vulnerable in our communities.... It doesn't matter if you live in Newfoundland or in British Columbia; we want to make sure there's consistency—

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Minister. I'm sorry, but we don't have a lot of time today.

I just want to clarify: The CRA has confirmed that the disability tax credit cannot be correlated on a one-to-one basis to a person with a disability. It is confirmed by the CRA they cannot do that. They do not know the income of a person with a disability to marry it to a disability tax credit. They do not have that information, so how are you going to find those people who need to have the Canada disability benefit?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

You do not need to be employed to access the disability tax credit. In fact, it is a gateway to other benefits that individuals with disabilities can actually receive, whether it is, as I mentioned, the Canada dental care plan, the Canada child care benefit, the disability benefit or the other benefits.

Kristina, do you mind just going through some of the other benefits that DTC people can also access?

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Minister, but my questions are really to you and are around the disability tax credit. It's an institutionalized mechanism that requires someone to visit a doctor and have a judgment from a doctor on whether or not they have a disability. We know that the majority of folks who live in poverty and with a disability do not have access to that disability tax credit. How are you going to locate these people living in poverty, especially those in the deepest poverty, to get access to the Canada disability benefit?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Please give a short answer.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

There is significant funding in the budget to make sure that we actually streamline the process for DTC and that we actually remove some of the barriers, particularly when it comes to the disability tax credit.

One other thing I also want to mention is that the CRA, particularly with the disability tax credit, has a disability advisory committee that actually has worked alongside the disability community to ensure they remove any of the barriers around the disability tax credit, and it's really important—

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Minister.

We're over a bit, but it is important for Madam Zarrillo's question.

Next we have Ms. Ferreri for five minutes.

April 29th, 2024 / 4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here as we discuss persons with disabilities and inclusion.

We have heard a lot from disability advocates. In particular, last week in my riding I met with the Council for Persons with Disabilities.

I just want to ask you this: Do you think $6 a day would lift somebody out of poverty?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Mr. Chair, I think it's important to recognize that the $6 billion—the single largest budget item that we put forward in this budget—is going to significantly close the poverty gap—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Thank you. I'm going to go back to my time here.

What we have seen here today is the minister answering every single question with the same response. If you're just watching this....

People are looking for some answers, Minister. With all due respect, this is your file. That's done. What you've been doing for the last hour here or however long we have been here, is done.

The disability amount is $6 a day. It's $200 a month. When the former minister, Ms. Qualtrough, testified in this committee about Bill C-22 on October 31, 2022, she said, “It really will lift a significant number of people out of poverty, big time.”

People are watching at home. They can't afford to live. An Ontario man is applying for MAID because he's homeless. People with disabilities are applying for MAID.

Give Canadians some answers here today. It's been asked around this table multiple times: Do you think $6 a day is going to lift people out of poverty, or was your former minister wrong?