Human Resources Committee on April 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The clerk has advised me there's no condition to it.

I'm putting the motion by Mrs. Falk on the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a point of order.

In my opinion, the part at the end of the motion that talked about the failure of government—and I would encourage you to review this with the clerk—is what makes this not a dilatory motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I will go with my original position. I view it as dilatory and I'm putting it to a vote.

Madam Clerk, can we have a vote on whether the committee chooses to return to the minister as a witness and adjourn debate on the motion?

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

The committee has made a decision. We will end with this.

Committee members, order.

I am returning to the witness, Ms. Khera. There is one question for the Bloc and one question for the NDP.

For her 2.5 minutes, Madame Chabot—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I'll give my time to my colleague from the Green Party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madame Chabot is going to give her time to Mr. Morrice, I understand.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

I want to start with a series of questions for the minister with respect to expectations set about the Canada disability benefit.

The first is in the Liberal party platform of 2021, which said:

...this new benefit will reduce poverty among persons with disabilities in the same manner as the Guaranteed Income Supplement and the Canada Child Benefit.

Can the minister table, for this committee, the number of people who are expected to be raised above the poverty line by the Canada disability benefit?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it's important, again, to first and foremost recognize, as we push forward—

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I have such limited time, Chair. Can I just get an answer about whether or not it will be tabled?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You can ask the question. The minister can answer it.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Will it be tabled?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Yes, we're happy to bring that information to you.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Next, we've been told for many years that a lot of time is needed to consult with persons with disabilities on the Canada disability benefit. My concern is that there's nothing in what's being proposed that actually came from the disability community.

Therefore, I'd like the minister to table a list of people and organizations requesting a benefit of $200 a month, accessed only through the disability tax credit and not until July 2025. Will the minister table a list of people and organizations asking for this?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Chair, through you, if I may, I think it's important to recognize that since the Canada disability benefit got royal assent, we have been actively consulting with the disability community.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Chair, I have about 35 seconds left. Can I ask the minister whether they will or will not table that list?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is information I'm happy to provide to the honourable member.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

My last question for the minister is on paragraph 11(1)(f).

That is an amendment I was successful in getting added to the bill, which is now the act. It requires regulations providing for an application process that is without barriers. What has been proposed in budget 2024 regarding access to the disability tax credit is an 18-page application process that has significant barriers attached to it.

Is the minister aware of paragraph 11(1)(f) in the act, which requires the benefit to be accessed barrier-free?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Yes, I am.

Mr. Chair, if I may, I think it's also important to recognize that in the budget, we have put in a significant amount of funding to particularly ensure that we make the DTC, the disability tax credit, barrier-free.

We actually expect more people to apply for the DTC. The funding in the budget is to ensure that we will pay for the DTC costs, so the costs won't be to the individuals with disabilities.

There are also navigator supports we have put forward that will help community organizations that are helping individuals with disabilities get that extra support. At the same time, we're ensuring that we work with community members who have been doing this work at the forefront. There's been the work that's been happening—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Morrice, thank you.

We'll now go to Madam Zarrillo to conclude for two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly wish there were more women elected and sitting around this table, because we can actually do two things at once: We can denounce white supremacy and look out for persons with disabilities. That's not possible between the Cons and the Liberals, who had their little debate today. It's also why, after Conservative governments and Liberal governments, over a million Canadians with disabilities are still living in poverty.

To the minister, I would say that this is such a large breach of trust that has come out of this $200 per month through the DTC. It's not what advocates asked for. It's not what the disability community asked for. Even worse, it's not what the lowest-income persons with disabilities asked for.

I'm going to go back to the comments about the CRA having a committee. The minister talked about a committee. Advocates have told this government that automatic eligibility to the CDB is as easy as an addition to the mandatory T5007 statement, and then the CRA can facilitate automatic enrolment in the Canada disability benefit.

Why didn't the government act on this?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in my earlier comment, we absolutely want to ensure that more individuals can actually apply for the DTC. As I mentioned earlier, it isn't just there for individuals who have employment; it's actually a gateway for other federal benefits that are out there.

We have put forward—

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sorry, Minister. I'm going to have to cut you off on that, because the disability tax credit is an institutionalized credit that requires someone to go to a medical professional to have somebody tell them whether or not they have a disability. It's not in the labour code to do that. If someone is in employment, they can self-identify that they have a disability, whether it's physical or mental.

What this government is legislating and imposing is that they have to go through an institutional process to get access to the Canada disability benefit. I'm not talking about whether they have income or not; I'm saying that the disability tax credit is not freely accessible by everyone. free access for everyone.

Why won't this government just go ahead and add some sort of an addition to the T5007 or to another mechanism so that we can understand that a person with a disability has identified that they have a disability and that they could potentially be entitled to the disability benefit? Why can't the government do that?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I want to clarify two things for my colleague.

The CRA has a disability advisory committee that works in tandem with the work of the disability tax credit, ensuring that people with lived experiences.... It's actually doing the work to ensure that we can make the DTC as barrier-free as we can.

With the investments we're making, we expect that more people will actually apply for the disability tax credit. With the investments we're making in this budget, there will be costs that the Government of Canada will pay for, the costs associated with the DTC.

At the same time, we are putting in significant funding so that organizations on the ground—and many of them have been part of the work that has gotten us to this point—will be able to help within their own communities, will be able to help support individuals with disabilities.

I think we all have a role and responsibility. We can all play a bigger role in making sure that more people can apply for the DTC, which also is a gateway to other federal and some provincial benefits that exist.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Minister and Ms. Zarrillo, that concludes the first hour of this committee meeting.

I will suspend for just two minutes while Minister O'Regan takes his seat.

Thank you, Minister, for your appearance today. Thank you to your staff with you.

We'll suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, we are now resuming what's left of the committee's two hours.

We have with us Mr. O'Regan, Minister of Labour and Seniors; Sandra Hassan, deputy minister of labour and associate deputy minister of employment and social development; and Brian Leonard, director general and deputy chief financial officer, corporate financial planning.

Minister, you have the floor for five minutes or less, as it is my intention to allow the committee one round of six minutes each. That should take us to about 5:40 or 5:45. It depends on how long you are.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, Minister of Labour and Seniors]

In the interest of time and perhaps discretion, Mr. Chair, I've read my opening remarks and they're not that inspiring. Why don't we cut right to the questions?